Henry Rifle Forums

Since I've bought my Big Boy Steel 357 Magnum rifle, I been working on some load data for the rifle. I'm not of the kind that runs different ammo threw none of my rifles. I will admit that I do have some duel ammo applications for a few of my revolvers, but I know what the POA and POI is for each allotment of ammo that I have on hand for each revolver. Rifle on the other hand, I stick with only one allotment of ammo and that's because it's for precision. I'm a stickler for accuracy. I hate aiming at a target and the POA does not coexist with the POI. This is where working up load data comes in for me.

Right now, I'm working on velocity and I'm having a hard time closing the feet per second spread. At my current powder charge of 18.2 grains of Winchester 296, I'm getting a spread of 1926 - 2086 velocity. One would think, wow that's allot but not terribly bad....negative....that's unacceptable by my standards for my reloads. I don't like shooting vertical strings cause the velocity has a wide spread.

My problem lies in my brass casings cause I'm using mixed brass. To build precision ammo for this rifle, I just don't have one of the critical components on hand to do that task and that would be brass casings. The problem with my brass casings, is there mixed manufactured casings. One manufacture of brass, the case volume is different from another brass manufacture. This in return changes the case pressure, which will effect the velocity. Difference in the case volume, which effects case pressure, will in return, cause a vertical shooting string. To fix this problem, I'm gonna have to order some brass casings from Starline. That way, the case volume will be pretty close. That will stop the vertical shooting string that I'm getting. I hate to do this cause I have several thousand 357 Magnum casings on hand. Since I'm gonna do this for my rifles, I've decided to do this for my revolvers as well.

Kentucky windage.....NOT GONNA HAPPEN...!!!

interesting report .... as one who is getting ready to reload for 357, this is great info

A lot of interesting aspects of ammo prep/usage in your post...I liked reading it.
I also really liked the phrase you used, "...the POA does not coexist with the POI." That's surely shooting for that accuracy!!

BTW, Kentucky Windage and I are on very friendly terms!

Rugerfanboy wrote:Since I've bought my Big Boy Steel 357 Magnum rifle, I been working on some load data for the rifle.

I'm a stickler for accuracy. I hate aiming at a target and the POA does not coexist with the POI. This is where working up load data comes in for me.

Kentucky windage.....NOT GONNA HAPPEN...!!!

JEBar wrote:... this is great info

Yes, it is. Thanks for your report, RFB. I only shoot offhand, so my POA has a lot of variation and my POIs are scattered. As a new shooter and a new hand loader, I'm no where near being able to gauge the accuracy of different loads like you do. I do want to be consistent, though; so I use the same charge (at the low end of the min/max range for the revolver) in both my revolver and my rifle, and I don't do any experimenting. I also keep all of my brass separated by head stamp into boxes of 50 to minimize the case variations you talked about, particularly with the crimp.

Rugerfanboy wrote:My problem lies in my brass casings cause I'm using mixed brass.

I've been thinking about it and got to wondering, do you full length resize your cases ? .... have to admit that I've never noticed any difference made by the mixed cases we use

I will admit that I do have some duel ammo applications for a few of my revolvers

I thought dueling was outlawed years ago.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

JEBar wrote:interesting report .... as one who is getting ready to reload for 357, this is great info

Did you get you a BB357Mag...???

PT7 wrote:A lot of interesting aspects of ammo prep/usage in your post...I liked reading it.
I also really liked the phrase you used, "...the POA does not coexist with the POI." That's surely shooting for that accuracy!!

BTW, Kentucky Windage and I are on very friendly terms!

Thank you...!!!

CT_Shooter wrote:

JEBar wrote:... this is great info

Yes, it is. Thanks for your report, RFB. I only shoot offhand, so my POA has a lot of variation and my POIs are scattered. As a new shooter and a new hand loader, I'm no where near being able to gauge the accuracy of different loads like you do. I do want to be consistent, though; so I use the same charge (at the low end of the min/max range for the revolver) in both my revolver and my rifle, and I don't do any experimenting. I also keep all of my brass separated by head stamp into boxes of 50 to minimize the case variations you talked about, particularly with the crimp.

Since you only use the low end of the powder charge, be very careful cause low powder charges for revolvers don't always seal the casing in the cylinder and sometimes, burnt powder residue will come back at the shooter. Remember to always wear safety glasses when shooting, specially a revolver. This is one thing that I check when I'm working up load data for a revolver.

When I reload for a revolver (38,357 and 44), I have several allotments for each caliber. Like for example: 38 Special and 38 Special+P, 357 and 357 Magnum and 44 Special, 44 and 44 Magnum. Then I have allotments of ammo for barrel lengths as well. Pretty much, I reload what each of my revolvers like, not what it will shoot. Now for my BBS 357 Mag and my BBS 44 Mag, the ammo for these two rifles will not be used in any of my revolvers. The ammo for my BBS 44 Mag, I can shoot that ammo in my Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag, but it will beat you to death cause there at the max powder charge.

JEBar wrote:

Rugerfanboy wrote:My problem lies in my brass casings cause I'm using mixed brass.

I've been thinking about it and got to wondering, do you full length resize your cases ? .... have to admit that I've never noticed any difference made by the mixed cases we use

All straight wall casings have to be full length sized. I'll post a picture that shows two casings with different case volumes. These two casings were charged with the same powder charge but had different velocities. One had 1931 velocity and the other was 2067 velocity.

clovishound wrote:

I will admit that I do have some duel ammo applications for a few of my revolvers

I thought dueling was outlawed years ago.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Rugerfanboy wrote:

JEBar wrote:interesting report .... as one who is getting ready to reload for 357, this is great info

Did you get you a BB357Mag...???

we are currently in South Dakota spending the summer in our camper .... on July 20th my plan it to call home and ask our firearms dealer to special order a Henry H012M Big Boy Steel .357 Magnum /.38 Spl that will be a gift for our grandson who will turn 8 in September .... when he was born we gave him a lifetime NC Hunting and Fishing License, gave both of our granddaughters the same licenses when they were born .... when he turns 8, his father (our youngest son) will take him NC's Hunter Safety Course .... the Henry 357 will become his first deer hunting rifle .... my plan is to order it with the large loop, a hammer extension, Nikon scope, special serial number, and am exploring the cost of having it color case hardened .... we've reloaded hunting and target loads for both of our son's Ruger GP100 357's since the late 70's/early 80's .... our plan is to use the same hunting and target loads for the Henry that we've been using for their GP100's

Rugerfanboy wrote: Since you only use the low end of the powder charge, be very careful cause low powder charges for revolvers don't always seal the casing in the cylinder and sometimes, burnt powder residue will come back at the shooter. Remember to always wear safety glasses when shooting, specially a revolver. This is one thing that I check when I'm working up load data for a revolver.

I don't understand what it means, "seal the casing in the cylinder". The spent brass and the gun never show any signs of unburnt powder using the lower end (not lowest) of the published data that I use. And, yes, I always wear eye and ears. Can you elaborate? Thanks.

I'm editing this to ask another question that occurred to me while loading a box for the range. I only shoot jacketed bullets. Does this potential safety issue pertain more to lead than jacketed bullets in revolvers? That would seem likely, though it's a new consideration for me, so... thanks again.

CT_Shooter wrote:

Rugerfanboy wrote: Since you only use the low end of the powder charge, be very careful cause low powder charges for revolvers don't always seal the casing in the cylinder and sometimes, burnt powder residue will come back at the shooter. Remember to always wear safety glasses when shooting, specially a revolver. This is one thing that I check when I'm working up load data for a revolver.

I don't understand what it means, "seal the casing in the cylinder". The spent brass and the gun never show any signs of unburnt powder using the lower end (not lowest) of the published data that I use. And, yes, I always wear eye and ears. Can you elaborate? Thanks.

I'm not sure what the case pressure has to be to seal the casing in the cylinder chamber. But the casing must have a certain amount of pressure from the powder being ignited inside of the casing to seal the casing inside of the revolver cylinder chamber. What this means is, when you pull the revolver trigger, the round goes off. The powder is ignited inside of the casing and pressure builds up inside of the casing. The pressure gets high enough to push the bullet out of the casing. When the powder ignites, the casing will expand to the diameter of the cylinder chamber if the round has enough powder inside of the round. If there is not enough powder to expand the casing to the cylinder chamber, the bullet will still exit the casing cause the neck tension and the crimp wasn't strong enough to hold the bullet in until the pressure built up to push the round out of the casing (powder burn rate also applies). Low powder charges will not yield enough case pressure to seal the casing inside of the cylinder chamber. To sum this up, since the casing didn't have enough case pressure to expand the casing to the same size as the revolver cylinder chamber, some powder residue will leak between the casing and the cylinder chamber. This residue will sometimes come back toward the shooter and hit them in the face. Eye protection is a must have when shooting powder puff (aka....bunny fart) ammo in a revolver.

CT_Shooter wrote:I'm editing this to ask another question that occurred to me while loading a box for the range. I only shoot jacketed bullets. Does this potential safety issue pertain more to lead than jacketed bullets in revolvers? That would seem likely, though it's a new consideration for me, so... thanks again.

It doesn't matter is it's a jacketed bullet, a lead bullet or even a plated bullet. How much powder you put inside of the round will determine the case pressure. Also, case volume will effect the case pressure. Seating a bullet deeper in the casing will yield a lower case volume, which will increase the case pressure when the powder is ignited.

As in my case (picture), the mixed brass casings had different volumes and that changes the amount of pressure, which also effected the velocity. The Blazer brass casing had less case volume, which yielded a higher case pressure, which in turn, caused a higher velocity in that round even thou the Blazer casing had the same amount of powder as the Remington Peters case had and the bullets were seated the same depth.

I hope I've explained this so that you understand. If your still confused, ask and I'll try to explain it another way.

JEBar wrote:

Rugerfanboy wrote:

JEBar wrote:interesting report .... as one who is getting ready to reload for 357, this is great info

Did you get you a BB357Mag...???

we are currently in South Dakota spending the summer in our camper .... on July 20th my plan it to call home and ask our firearms dealer to special order a Henry H012M Big Boy Steel .357 Magnum /.38 Spl that will be a gift for our grandson who will turn 8 in September .... when he was born we gave him a lifetime NC Hunting and Fishing License, gave both of our granddaughters the same licenses when they were born .... when he turns 8, his father (our youngest son) will take him NC's Hunter Safety Course .... the Henry 357 will become his first deer hunting rifle .... my plan is to order it with the large loop, a hammer extension, Nikon scope, special serial number, and am exploring the cost of having it color case hardened .... we've reloaded hunting and target loads for both of our son's Ruger GP100 357's since the late 70's/early 80's .... our plan is to use the same hunting and target loads for the Henry that we've been using for their GP100's

I have a GP100 and one of the powder charges for it is in the upper 19.5gr using H110 and that's about as much as I want to handle. With that powder charge, I can only shoot so many rounds cause it beats my hand to death and the muzzle flip is a hoot/riot to see. According to Hodgdon's website, my max powder charge is 22.0gr of H110 (125gr bullet). There's no way I would shoot that in my Ruger GP100 revolver. But, I can say, these Henry Big Boy rifles will shine in the upper range of the powder charge for H110 powder in the accuracy department. You might reconsider just working up the load data for your grandson's new rifle for deer hunting. You will be glad you did if he takes a 100 to 150 yard shot.

early on when we gave our boys GP100's we settled on loading 14.8 grains of W296 pushing a 158 gr Nosler JHP for their hunting loads .... historically we've only used new Winchester brass for hunting ammo but do plan to switch to Starline .... we also use CCI small pistol magnum primers .... that combo has proven to be good for paper punching out to 100 yards and the boys have each taken multiple deer out to 50 yards .... based on what I've seen, I'd be willing to use it at 75 yards with no concerns for its ability to put the deer down .... recoil is in keeping with what is expected from a 357 and the boys handle it well .... I'm looking forward to seeing how the perform out of a Henry

Nosler's manual does not address using a 125 gr bullet ... with their 158 they recommend a max load of 15.9 gr of H110

Rugerfanboy wrote:
I hope I've explained this so that you understand.

Very well done, RFB. I was familiar with the concept, but reading your explanation pulled it back into memory; knowledge reinforcement is always valuable. Thanks for your very clear definition.

JEBar wrote:early on when we gave our boys GP100's we settled on loading 14.8 grains of W296 pushing a 158 gr Nosler JHP for their hunting loads .... historically we've only used new Winchester brass for hunting ammo but do plan to switch to Starline .... we also use CCI small pistol magnum primers .... that combo has proven to be good for paper punching out to 100 yards and the boys have each taken multiple deer out to 50 yards .... based on what I've seen, I'd be willing to use it at 75 yards with no concerns for its ability to put the deer down .... recoil is in keeping with what is expected from a 357 and the boys handle it well .... I'm looking forward to seeing how the perform out of a Henry

Nosler's manual does not address using a 125 gr bullet ... with their 158 they recommend a max load of 15.9 gr of H110

Ya...I was referring to 125gr Zero and Hornady bullet since that's all I have on hand that will handle the velocity. Also, just so you know what to expect, but I chrono'd a 125gr Hornady HP/VTP with Winchester 296 powder 20.0 gr powder charge and the recoil was very manageable and the average velocity was 2024 fps. The 158gr bullet, since it's a heavier bullet, the recoil will be even less.

This rifle will probably never see any hunting, so, I think I'm gonna stick to a jacketed 125gr bullet. But, on the other hand, if I cant get anymore Zero 125gr JHP bullets, I'm gonna just switch over to Nosler 158gr JHP. Hornady HP/VTP bullets are just too expensive to target shoot with, so I'm not evening gonna consider them for plinking/target shooting.

Winchester 296 Powder
Load data 158gr JHP: Hornady Reloading Handbook 9th Edition
Max Load: 15.7gr

Load data 158gr JHP: Hodgdon Website
Max Load: 16.7gr

I finally found what I was after today. After some consideration, I decided to settle on 20grains of Winchester 296 powder as my target/plinking load for my Big Boy Steel 357 Magnum rifle. I did test out to the max load, which indeed was/had a positive outcome. But, decided the added recoil, the amount in savings on components, the added recoil was not needed at this time (considered, I was gonna save on components being at a lower powder charge). Plus, my Hornady Reloading Handbook 9th Edition was spot on. I did work some more with the brass casings that I have on hand. I ended up sorting the brass and decided to use the Blazer brass casing for the load data since it has the lowest case volume. I also prepped the brass some more. I worked on the case mouth tension as well so that I knew each casing had the same. To do this, I annealed each piece so that my sizing die was not over working them. I had a feeling I was getting some spring back of the brass when full length sizing this brass. I confirmed this with a micrometer, not a dial caliper. I confirmed this before and after annealing the brass, even after I sized them. I even tested some brass that I didn't anneal and found the reading spread was even higher. I trimmed the brass so that the crimp was crimping at the same spot on each piece that I was using for my load data. All in all, I think it paid off. BUT, this is allot of work and I don't plan to do this since this is target and plinking ammo. So, to keep from having to do all this work on each piece of brass. Starline has a large order coming from me on there 357 Magnum brass. Plus, I want new brass for my revolvers as well. Allot of my 357 Magnum brass has at least 25 reloads on them. I only throw out this brass when I find a case mouth crack or a primer pocket is too loose. Crack in the side wall or a crack in the base, they get thrown in the recycled bin. I have a GO NO-GO gauge for checking the primer pocket spec's.

The 20grains of W296 powder does indeed have some recoil, but it's more of a push. The 22grains of W296 powder has a rather large amount of recoil and it's more on the lines of a kick to the shoulder. I don't know, maybe later on, I might up the powder to 22 grains. But, right now, I'm gonna stick to 20 grains of W296. I'm not hunting with this rifle, so the added powder is not needed. This load will solely be for target shooting at no more than 100 yards. Plus, I'm not the only one going to be shooting this rifle. My wife plans on shooting it as well.

125gr hollow point 20gr Winchester 296 powder OAL: 1.590 .004" case mouth tension and .004" crimp
I shot a group of 8 rounds.
1) 1996
2) 2014
3) 1996
4) 2002
5) 1987
6) 1987
7) 1999
8) 1993
High: 2014
Low: 1987
Average: 1996
Spread: 27
Deviation: 8