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Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:22 pm
by Cooper
This deer season I am switching from a .30-06 bolt action to the Henry single shot H015, .45-70. I do not expect any shots to be greater than 75 yards and will hunting from a tree stand and expect the deer to be in and out of brush. I have mounted a Leupold 1-4x scope on the rifle.
I am trying to find the best bullet to kill the deer most effectively. I have loaded the Hornady 250 gr. MonoFlex, 300 gr. Hollow Point, and the 350 gr. Interlock Round Nose. I am using IMR 4198 and have loaded the bullets to travel around 1800 fps. I am still working on the best load for the rifle as well as the best bullet.
At these speeds are the bullets likely to exit the deer?
At what speeds should I expect the hollow point or a flex tip to expand?
What are other hunter's experiences with these bullets and their knock down power?
After zeroing the scope the other day, I shot the above bullets at 50 and 75 yards with about a 5" grouping, for the most part. Which doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
Thanks!
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:09 pm
by tarbe
No personal experience with the Monoflex..so I'd only be speculating.
1,800 is a great MV for 300gr on deer at 75 yards and under. Unless you are shooting stem to stern, they will exit.
Here is a buck from last year, shot by my SIL with his Henry 45-70 and a 300gr Hornady at 40 yards (impact velocity about 1,650fps). It was a pass-through.
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Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:11 pm
by tarbe
Here is the heart;
- IMG_0211.jpg (124.54 KiB) Viewed 4317 times
The deer was walking when he shot and it went straight down!
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:30 pm
by tarbe
Lastly, I believe you will get quicker kills with the 300 on deer, as opposed to the 350.
The 350 is not only going to be going slower, it is constructed more stoutly, for heavier game. It will not transfer energy to the deer as quickly as the 300.
The 300 will give all the penetration you need on deer, and then some. Smack a deer in the boiler room with a 300 impacting anywhere from 1,500 to 1,800 and that deer is going down quickly. And quicker than hitting it in the same spot with the 350 at 1,400 to 1,700.
My $0.02 as always.
Now for elk or moose, the only 300gr I would use is the Barnes TSX. A 350gr North Fork or Swift A-Frame would also be good!
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:38 pm
by JEBar
for deer, black bear, and boar I fire a 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertip
https://shop.nosler.com/ballistic-silve ... -50ct.html , pushed by 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 .... per our chrony it leaves our Henry's barrel traveling in the neighborhood of 2,200 fps .... when Shooter's Pro Shop has them in stock
http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-p ... -50ct.html , I buy bunches
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:46 pm
by BigAl52
Agree with Jim that 300gr Nosler silver tip is a great bullet. Id not be afraid to use it all the way to moose.
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 am
by BruniX
tarbe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:30 pm
The 350 is not only going to be going slower, it is constructed more stoutly, for heavier game. It will not transfer energy to the deer as quickly as the 300.
The 300 will give all the penetration you need on deer, and then some. Smack a deer in the boiler room with a 300 impacting anywhere from 1,500 to 1,800 and that deer is going down quickly. And quicker than hitting it in the same spot with the 350 at 1,400 to 1,700.
hello,
i don't hunt and i am a nearly newbie on firearm...
i don't understand really why a more massive bullet will be less lethal than a smaller one...
Why the energy will not transfered as quickly as a lightweight bullet ?
because it will cross away the target without expand ?*
Also why 405 Gr bullet never founded in hollow point , example lyman mold #457193 , while a 330gr bullet like the lyman 457422 is hollow point ?
to heavy to expand ?
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:35 am
by GaHenryFan
BruniX wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 am
hello,
i don't hunt and i am a nearly newbie on firearm...
i don't understand really why a more massive bullet will be less lethal than a smaller one...
Why the energy will not transfered as quickly as a lightweight bullet ?
because it will cross away the target without expand ?*
Also why 405 Gr bullet never founded in hollow point , example lyman mold #457193 , while a 330gr bullet like the lyman 457422 is hollow point ?
to heavy to expand ?
A 405 gr ends up around 385gr as a hollow-point. They will definitely expand if the alloy is correct.
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Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:38 am
by tarbe
Gents
Let’s be careful not to get ourselves spinning in circles by mixing our data/comments up between jacketed and cast - two different discussions.
My comments were specific to jacketed bullets only!
Cast discussions will become more analytical regarding nose profile and Bhn.
The 300gr jacketed will have thinner jackets and softer cores, so can expand more readily on relatively light deer.
A 300 grain Hornady hollowpoint impacting a deer in the lungs at 1700 ft./s will kill that dear more quickly than a 500 grain Hornady impacting in the same spot at the same speed, despite the 500gr possessing more kinetic energy.
The 300gr kills quicker because it actually imparts more of its kinetic energy into tissue destruction, which is what kills animals.
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:41 am
by tarbe
GaHenryFan
Nice boolit!
What is the Bhn and what was the impact velocity and impact medium?
Tim
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:52 am
by GaHenryFan
tarbe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:41 am
GaHenryFan
Nice boolit!
What is the Bhn and what was the impact velocity and impact medium?
Tim
Sorry, Tim, didn't mean to hijack your post. I was responding to Brunix about heavy cast hollow-points.
I think it's around 12 bhn. It's a 2-2-96 alloy. That one was only running 900fps. Shot into water jugs and caught I the second jug.
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:13 am
by clovishound
To answer a previous question, IN GENERAL, a lighter bullet will travel faster and is more likely to expand to a larger final diameter. This has the effect of making a bigger hole, and therefore transferring more energy to the tissue. A heavier bullet will be traveling slower, and therefore will be likely to expand less. The other issue is that at the same speed and size, a heavier bullet will penetrate further, because it has more inertial mass.
Of course, there are other factors such as bullet hardness, profile and construction that can affect the expansion of a bullet.
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:58 pm
by BruniX
tarbe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:38 am
The 300gr jacketed will have thinner jackets and softer cores, so can expand more readily on relatively light deer.
A 300 grain Hornady hollowpoint impacting a deer in the lungs at 1700 ft./s will kill that dear more quickly than a 500 grain Hornady impacting in the same spot at the same speed, despite the 500gr possessing more kinetic energy.
The 300gr kills quicker because it actually imparts more of its kinetic energy into tissue destruction, which is what kills animals.
thanks, very well, !...
I did not know that jacket wath thinner on lighter bullets
!
by, softer cores, you mean smaller brinell index ?
BruniX
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:19 pm
by BruniX
@tarbe
sorry for disgression !
@garyfan,
i will open another post in cast to ask question about 405 gr Hollow point
thanks to all, for very interesting information along the posts , on this forum !
BruniX
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:04 pm
by Cooper
Grabagun has the Noslers in stock. $38.49 plus shipping
https://grabagun.com/bsearch/result/?q=51834
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:10 pm
by JEBar
Nosler list the weight retention of its Ballistic Silvertips at 1800fps to be 86% .... at 2400fps to be 74% .... I've taken large bodied elk with bullets that didn't deliver the force of these 300 gr'ers .... out to a little over 100 yards, I wouldn't hesitate to them .... at longer distances I'd prefer and entirely different caliber
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:24 pm
by JEBar
Cooper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:04 pm
Grabagun has the Noslers in stock. $38.49 plus shipping
that's very much in the usual price range .... if you are interested in buying very many, I'd recommend you consider going to Shooter's Pro Shop at this link >>>
http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-p ... -50ct.html .... then click on the line above "OUT OF STOCK" where you can be get on a list to be notified when they have more in stock .... for me, saving over $13 per box of 50 is well worth waiting for
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:03 pm
by Pitchman1968
I hand load all my rifle ammo. In .45-70, my most accurate loads are Hornady 325 gr FTX bullets atop 38 grs of IMR 4198. Velocity is 1,700 FPS and the felt recoil isn't too bad on my 76 year old shoulder. From the bench, I consistently get 2.5" groups at 100 yards. In spite of its accuracy, I have shied away from this round for deer and black bear because over the last 10 years I have read a few articles which contend the 325 FTX does penetrate deeply enough because it expands too quickly upon impact. As such, for deer and black bear I use Oregon Trail 405 grain hard cast lead laser bullets, on which I install gas checks. The powder is 33 grs of IMR 4198. The velocity is about 1,500 FPS with only a mild recoil. I give up some accuracy with these vs. the 325 FTXers with the 100 yard groups increasing to 3 - 4".
Re: Deer Hunting, Bullet and FPS Suggestions for .45-70
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:43 pm
by Greyhawk
Cooper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:22 pm
This deer season I am switching from a .30-06 bolt action to the Henry single shot H015, .45-70. I do not expect any shots to be greater than 75 yards and will hunting from a tree stand and expect the deer to be in and out of brush. I have mounted a Leupold 1-4x scope on the rifle.
I am trying to find the best bullet to kill the deer most effectively. I have loaded the Hornady 250 gr. MonoFlex, 300 gr. Hollow Point, and the 350 gr. Interlock Round Nose. I am using IMR 4198 and have loaded the bullets to travel around 1800 fps. I am still working on the best load for the rifle as well as the best bullet.
At these speeds are the bullets likely to exit the deer?
At what speeds should I expect the hollow point or a flex tip to expand?
What are other hunter's experiences with these bullets and their knock down power?
After zeroing the scope the other day, I shot the above bullets at 50 and 75 yards with about a 5" grouping, for the most part. Which doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
Thanks!
I shot two deer last year using 300 grain HP Hornady's and 44 grains of H4198. I'll tell you, it's an accurate load in my rifle and it smacked them right down. Neither deer ran very far (20 yards) and both left a blood trail like I have never seen before.