Henry Rifle Forums

I've been loading 148 grain WCs using Trail Boss for a while now. I love the accuracy and soft recoil. So does the Pup. The only issue I have is that there is such a narrow band loading TB for this bullet. Start is 2.0 and max is 2.3. I'm thinking about going back to my old standby of Universal for this load because it has a much larger spread from start to max. 2.9 to 3.8

I just like the peace of mind of loading in the middle of the band and if I happen to be off by a couple tenths of a grain, I'm still well within the safety zone.

I haven't loaded this with Universal in a while, but I seem to remember it yielded good results. Just not as soft a recoil as TB.

Any thoughts on this? I almost feel like I'm being overly cautious, as I have loaded many thousands of rounds with TB with nothing but good results. Still, there is something to be said for peace of mind.

I agree. 200gr lead is 6.4 to 8.8 gn of Universal. I am loading 7.0 gn give or take a tenth and never have to worry. Getting good results too.

Worth it in my opinion. Especially with your daughter shooting too.

I agree with you both. I don't like being squeezed that tight on tolerances although precision is always my goal. I assume you're loading for 38 or 357. If that is the case WW231 has always been my powder of choice. It meters well and is both versatile and tolerant. With such a small powder capacity left by the deep seating of a WC the slightest variation is noticeable with any charge.

I shot PPC for years and 231 was the powder of choice for a large number of us. It worked very well for me, holding tight enough groups in all my guns to allow me to remain competitive in the various classes: from service revolver and auto, limited to twenty-five yards; to the full on six inch PPC heavy barreled competition revolver over the fifty yard course. The Master Class shooters were routinely forced to determine winners by x ring counts at fifty yards. (Master Class.. ... Ah, sadly... That was not my ranking... )

I still use 231 for all my handgun needs. Simplifies the loading ...
I load 38, 357, 9mm, 40, and of course, what old Marine wouldn't... 45.

I messed up about 6 years ago and ran out of 231. Thought I still had a 24# keg in my magazine but that wasn't what it was. Couldn't get 231 at the time but Tightgroup was available. Made a good substitute and I still load my 45ACP with it. Never tried it with wadcutters though.

I believe folks should use components in which they have total confidence and peace of mind

JEBar wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am

I believe folks should use components in which they have total confidence and peace of mind

That's why I have a supply of Blue Dot that may never get used again. Strange stuff.

"...and of course, what old Marine wouldn't...45?"
You're darn tottin' Marine! .45 acp!

I may try a test with P38 as well. I was never impressed with it, but in retrospect, that may have been when I was loading mostly plated, which I have gotten away from. HP38 is probably not the best powder for plated, unless you are willing to load well into jacketed data. I always stayed with the lead data. Universal almost completely overlaps lead and jacketed, which makes it an excellent powder for plated IMO.

Anyway, I have a pound or two of HP38 I picked up when powder was hard to get, and I don't really use it anymore, so I might see if it would work well enough to allow me to use it up. Lots of folks seem to really like it.

And to BOM, if I had to choose one handgun for the range, it would without a doubt be my 1911, in .45 ACP, of course.

clovishound wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:28 pm

I may try a test with P38 as well. I was never impressed with it, but in retrospect, that may have been when I was loading mostly plated, which I have gotten away from. HP38 is probably not the best powder for plated, unless you are willing to load well into jacketed data. I always stayed with the lead data. Universal almost completely overlaps lead and jacketed, which makes it an excellent powder for plated IMO.

Anyway, I have a pound or two of HP38 I picked up when powder was hard to get, and I don't really use it anymore, so I might see if it would work well enough to allow me to use it up. Lots of folks seem to really like it.

And to BOM, if I had to choose one handgun for the range, it would without a doubt be my 1911, in .45 ACP, of course.

As you may or may not know, HP38 and WW231 are the same powder with only lot to lot variations.

That's why I bought HP38 and not 231. It's the same powder, but costs less. No royalties to Winchester.

clovishound wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:14 am

That's why I bought HP38 and not 231. It's the same powder, but costs less. No royalties to Winchester.

??????? Same stuff and same price everywhere I buy. Right now it's $159 per 8# jug locally for either one.

I always find the 1 pound bottles of 231 to be a couple bucks more than HP38 in my area. Maybe Winchester charges by the container, without regard to the size so they just eat the difference in the big containers.

I never mess with 1# cans. Can't afford them. Glanced at the case last time in the store and saw 1# prices from 28 to $36 or so. Paid no attention to which powders they were. Buying a minimum of 8# jugs you save 50 to $100 usually which is why I buy either 24 or 40# kegs when I can. Properly taken care of it will last a lot longer than I will if there is any left. I have 2 kids and 4 grandkids that all love to shoot. I can't reload fast enough to keep the 13yo granddaughter supplied with 5.56 and 45acp so at least for those 2 calibers volume is the name of the game. BTW she's good at it too. I'll pay closer attention the next time in the store

I go through a couple pounds a year, so not a big deal. I never seem to want to tie up over a hundred and a half in powder at any given time.

I can get the 9 0Z bottles of Trail Boss for about $17, and Universal for $22. The 8 lb jugs are around $150 to $160, and they usually have a limited number of powders in the larger jugs. The place to buy it is a 45 minute drive from home, but my buddy and I drive past the place from time to time when we are out and about. When we are in the area I usually get him to stop and I pick up any powder or primers I'm running low on.

Old Syko wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 am

JEBar wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am

I believe folks should use components in which they have total confidence and peace of mind

That's why I have a supply of Blue Dot that may never get used again. Strange stuff.

I have used a lot of BD over the years in the 357, & 41 mags.
Never had any issues, but I do know it is not recommended to light load.

RP

Vaquero wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:07 pm

Old Syko wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 am

JEBar wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am

I believe folks should use components in which they have total confidence and peace of mind

That's why I have a supply of Blue Dot that may never get used again. Strange stuff.

I have used a lot of BD over the years in the 357, & 41 mags.
Never had any issues, but I do know it is not recommended to light load.

RP

Tons of it have been used successfully over the years and I've used my share in the past also but no more. First hand use of pressure testing equipment changed my mind for good around 20 years ago.

CH I can understand your concern, but Trailboss' unique doughnut shape fills the case better.
I've had issues with the more dence powders at the low end.
Tim
An edit about a couple grain to much.
Using IMR's formula for find maximum Trailboss loads I will always back off a couple grains as my max. Giving me as you say that little extra safety margin.

Despite it's low density, Trail Boss max load for wadcutters is not what I would call a case filler. Remember, it's only a tad over 2 grains. I have no doubt that I could easily load a double throw, or more with plenty of room to seat a wadcutter.

clovishound wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:17 am

Despite it's low density, Trail Boss max load for wadcutters is not what I would call a case filler. Remember, it's only a tad over 2 grains. I have no doubt that I could easily load a double throw, or more with plenty of room to seat a wadcutter.

I load all handgun ammo on an LNL and use an RCBS lockout die carefully set to detect the slightest overcharge. I set it so close that the occasional heavy case web head will stop me. That's OK. I would rather have to stop for inspection occasionally than pay the price of going the other way. The lockout die adjustment allows for too much variation on small charges unless it's set very carefully. There are other checkers available but none seem to be any more accurate.