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Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:20 am
by BruniX
hello to all,
How do you determine the load,
for a Remington 405 Gr 45-70 bullet in IMR 4198 or Hodgdon 4198,
since this bullet is not in the Hodgdon reloading center choices?
(in 45-70 lever action, we find 300, 350 400, but not 405 Gr).
I imagine that you do not change the brand of powder to each model of bullet for a same caliber ?
On the other hand, what is the impact of using a heavier bullet ?
more recoil, I guess ?
shot less flat?
Is it more lethal for hunting?
Thanks !
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:02 pm
by CT_Shooter
BruniX wrote:
How do you determine the load,
for a Remington 405 Gr 45-70 bullet in IMR 4198 or Hodgdon 4198,
since this bullet is not in the Hodgdon reloading center choices?
(in 45-70 lever action, we find 300, 350 400, but not 405 Gr).
I'm very interested in what others have to say, since my experience is quite limited, both in bullets and in calibers. But, the difference between 400 and 405 grains is so slight that I would think that recommended loads for 400 would be acceptable, especially at the mid to lower end of the range. Usually, heavier bullets require less powder than lighter ones.
Please accept this with a grain (plus or minus five) of salt while you wait for one or more informed opinions.
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:03 pm
by Jdl447
From the Lyman 49th
- 079BDA33-7396-452F-BF21-35B57A7BB771.jpeg (188.59 KiB) Viewed 2875 times
- 555E5E7B-2F48-4E81-A6A9-02956E0D358F.jpeg (192 KiB) Viewed 2875 times
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:43 pm
by JEBar
BruniX wrote:How do you determine the load,
for a Remington 405 Gr 45-70 bullet in IMR 4198 or Hodgdon 4198,
since this bullet is not in the Hodgdon reloading center choices?
(in 45-70 lever action, we find 300, 350 400, but not 405 Gr).
if it is a lead bullet, you will most probably find it in a Lyman manual .... web sites like this one can be useful ===>
http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/defau ... urce=Guest
BruniX wrote:On the other hand, what is the impact of using a heavier bullet ?
more recoil, I guess ?
shot less flat?
Is it more lethal for hunting?
as a general rule the heavier the bullet, the heavier the recoil .... over on this side of the big pond its best to use heavier bullets for some critters .... again as a general rule, the heavier the bullet, the more arch in its trajectory .... the flatter you try to make it shoot the stronger the powder charge has to be .... as far as being more lethal, a heavy bullet may well work better on heavier bodied game .... if the 300 gr bullets we use kill a deer, it can't be any deader if hit with a 400 gr'er
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm
by BruniX
Jdl447 wrote:From the Lyman 49th /quote]
thanks , Lyman seems very intresting !
Jdl447 wrote:as a general rule the heavier the bullet, the heavier the recoil .... over on this side of the big pond its best to use heavier bullets for some critters .... again as a general rule, the heavier the bullet, the more arch in its trajectory .... the flatter you try to make it shoot the stronger the powder charge has to be .... as far as being more lethal, a heavy bullet may well work better on heavier bodied game .... if the 300 gr bullets we use kill a deer, it can't be any deader if hit with a 400 gr'er
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:27 pm
by BruniX
Jdl447 wrote:From the Lyman 49th /quote]
thanks , Lyman seems very intresting !
Jdl447 wrote:as a general rule the heavier the bullet, the heavier the recoil .... over on this side of the big pond its best to use heavier bullets for some critters .... again as a general rule, the heavier the bullet, the more arch in its trajectory .... the flatter you try to make it shoot the stronger the powder charge has to be .... as far as being more lethal, a heavy bullet may well work better on heavier bodied game .... if the 300 gr bullets we use kill a deer, it can't be any deader if hit with a 400 gr'er
sure , if 300 gr do the job , 405 gr is not needed , else if it is a zombie deer
so what is the utility of this bullet type ?
moose ? big bear, grizly, kodiak ? african buffalo ? godzilla
?
this is the bullet i have seen :
- remington 405 gr.jpg (19.55 KiB) Viewed 2865 times
i think it"s the standard bullet of remington core lokt, or remington express riffle... ?
- rem express riffle.jpg (44.33 KiB) Viewed 2865 times
I am interested because for my first tests of reloading, these balls are among the cheapest and as it requires less powder, it also reduces the price of ammunition ...
there are no bears near my house
Anyway, it's great to chat with guys who know and say things simply!
you are really nice ..
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:05 pm
by JEBar
if the 405 is the cheapest bullet you can find to load, go for it .... hopefully you will be able to work up a load that you will find comfortable to shoot .... it should be more than capable of taking down any of the boar and deer you have mentioned .... it will also punch a big hole in a paper target that will be easy to see
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:28 pm
by Ojaileveraction
Bruno,
If you look in the Hodgdon 45-70 Trapdoor section you will find a 405 gr8 load but for cast lead bullets.
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:10 am
by Ojaileveraction
I think shooting low end Trapdoor loads, 1300 fps and less , is like shooting a 22lr with a real good balistc coefficient.
Don't fear the rainbow....................trajectory!
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:13 pm
by mrguvna
might get flamed for this comment but the 45-70 was designed around this 405 bullet and it performs at it's best with the 400+ bullets as opposed to the lighter bullets. I would use the manuals and if it lists a 405 jacketed load you should start on the low end and work your way up to find the sweet spot. You can also shoot the 405 gr loads as mousefart loads if you would like, just needs a different powder like trail boss or unique.
4198 is also a good powder in the 45-70. I personally use the elmer keith load of a speer 400 gr jacketed over 53 gr of 3031, it is very accurate out to about 180-200yds, and lethal. I have found that 4198 can also produce accurate loads in the 45-70, I just do not have the load data with me right now. but IMHO you should stick with the 400 + grain bullets, you will find success quicker.
Re: Heavier bullet load and goal...
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:15 pm
by JEBar
there can be on doubt that 400+ gr bullets perform well in a 45-70 .... for hunting heavy body and/or dangerous big game, 405 gr (and heavier) bullets really come into their own .... its also a fact that a wide range of bullet weights perform well in them .... folks should most certainly fire the ammo that best suits their wants and needs .... felt recoil is a subjective thing .... I know that when I load our 45-70 with dangerous game level rounds, it roars on one end and kicks like a mule on the other .... for hunting that's fine, I don't recall the recoil or muzzle blast that had to have taken place on shots where the crosshairs were on bear, boar, deer, or elk .... for pleasure shooting on a range, its a much different story .... I haven't found that I need a 400 gr bullet to punch a hole in a paper target or to ring a gong .... I've also found that I can afford to enjoy firing many more rounds in a session on a range when when shooting trapdoor level ammo .... with trapdoor level loads, I get a flatter trajectory with lighter bullets .... for me that's one place where 300 gr bullets excel