Henry Rifle Forums

MrEd has led me down an interesting path for my 30-30 reloading, with 110 gr Speer RN and Unique powder. I think it's written about in other threads, but he and I have covered it pretty extensively offline.

Which leads me to this thread, which is: Wouldn't a 110 Gr 357 also work as a nice, easy-going plinker round for the BBS/Carbine? I'd just as soon NOT shoot 38 Spcl and will have an ample supply of brass, but just wanting to understand anyone's thoughts/experiences/recommendations along these lines.

I think I've got the hunting formula figured out, but I don't want to shoot hot 158 gr HPs all the time.

Anybody have any thoughts?

there any 110 gr 38/357 bullets on the market but I have no experience whatsoever with them .... much depends on the goal .... with a 357 Henry, recoil usually isn't an issue .... cost per shot most certainly could be .... we are happy with the 158 gr bullets we fire in ours

The main reason for the inquiry is that I bought this Hornady Classic Kit, and they have a "Free Bullet" rebate program. They offer .308 Spire point, which won't work for my 30-30 (and I'm using the Silvertips for the Long Ranger), and the only 357 bullet they offer in the deal is a 110 Gr XTP (Hornady Item # 35700), so I've got 500 of 'em coming my way.
It seems that Unique might just work in this scenario as well, but I'm open to suggestions/tips!

Again, my .357 "reloading" happens off the LGS shelves, ESquared.

I agree about not plinking with strong 158gr HPs. I have two ammo brands that I used mainly for the plinking range visits:
Fiocchi 142gr FMJTC & Remington Golden Sabre 125gr JHP. That was what I used when shooting the .357 BBS I had, and I continue to use my .357 ammo the same way with my 1890 Police revolver. I think it's the way to go.

BTW, I've not shot any .38 Special with either the rifle or revolver, and would not ever use that caliber. In my simple thinking, I like to consider a .357 Magnum firearm to be just that.

PT7

Esquared wrote:...a nice, easy-going plinker round...I don't want to shoot hot 158 gr HPs all the time...

While there is a 110 grain .357 bullet they are kind of a thing of the past and personally I wouldn't load anything lighter than 125 grain for a rifle round in .357.
Also thus is about the lightest bullet the 'economy' casters offer in hard cast lead or plated and so they are economical to load.
Keep them around 1100 +/- FPS and you will find them to be a very soft (and accurate) round.
I'd load the 125 grain plated with about 6-7 grains of Unique for what you are looking for.
Personally I would stick with 158 grain bullets but 125s seem to shoot about equally as 158s.

ESquared wrote:The main reason for the inquiry is that I bought this Hornady Classic Kit, and they have a "Free Bullet" rebate program. They offer .308 Spire point, which won't work for my 30-30 (and I'm using the Silvertips for the Long Ranger), and the only 357 bullet they offer in the deal is a 110 Gr XTP (Hornady Item # 35700), so I've got 500 of 'em coming my way.
It seems that Unique might just work in this scenario as well, but I'm open to suggestions/tips!

I have never used a light bullet like this myself, but others have. You may find this useful.

This is a list of loads for that bullet published online by M.D. Smith ( http://www.reloadammo.com/357loads.htm )

110 grain JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)

Bullseye 7.0 gr. 1,343 FPS
Bullseye 8.7 gr. 1,403 Max
Unique 9.0 gr. 1,545
Unique 9.7 gr. 1,447 Max
2400 19.5 gr. 1,670 max
Universal 7.5 gr. 1,465 start
Universal 8.0 gr. 1,536 max
HS6 10.6 gr. 1,612
HS6 11.5 gr. 1,776 max
HP38/W231 7.9 gr. 1,414
HP38/W231 8.0 gr. 1,541 start
HP38/W231 9.0 gr. 1,652 max
No. 2 8.8 gr. 1,324
No. 5 10.8 gr. 1,340
231 8.8 gr. 1,575
H-4227 18.9 gr. 1,774 start
H-4227 21.0 gr. 1,900 max
W-296 22.0 gr. 1,992 start
W-296 23.0 gr. 2,078 max

Maybe 110 grain XTPs are such a thing of the past that Hornady is giving them away if you buy a reloading Kit!

I've got 500 of 'em coming at me, so I'll figure out something. Will dig into my Hornady and Lyman manuals.

I have never used a light bullet like this myself, but others have. You may find this useful.

This is a list of loads for that bullet published online by M.D. Smith ( http://www.reloadammo.com/357loads.htm )

110 grain JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)

Bullseye 7.0 gr. 1,343 FPS
Bullseye 8.7 gr. 1,403 Max
Unique 9.0 gr. 1,545
Unique 9.7 gr. 1,447 Max
2400 19.5 gr. 1,670 max
Universal 7.5 gr. 1,465 start
Universal 8.0 gr. 1,536 max
HS6 10.6 gr. 1,612
HS6 11.5 gr. 1,776 max
HP38/W231 7.9 gr. 1,414
HP38/W231 8.0 gr. 1,541 start
HP38/W231 9.0 gr. 1,652 max
No. 2 8.8 gr. 1,324
No. 5 10.8 gr. 1,340
231 8.8 gr. 1,575
H-4227 18.9 gr. 1,774 start
H-4227 21.0 gr. 1,900 max
W-296 22.0 gr. 1,992 start
W-296 23.0 gr. 2,078 max[/quote]

Wow, that's quite the list to pick from, thanks very much! If I'm headed down a Unique path for the 30-30, I may try it out with these 357s and see what it looks like. Walk before you run, and I think I'd like to try the 357 before I crank out any 30-30 plinkers.

I'd drop the Unique weight to about 7 grains with those 110s to start.
Also I find it interesting the data from the site you posted the link for shows LESS velocity with the 9.7 grain load than the 9.0 grain.
Regardless the 9.7 grain load that shows 1447 FPS is exactly the same as the Alliant powder site shows so I suspect that is where this M. D. Smith got it from.
Stick with the powder mfg. sites or your manual for your data to start with until you learn to 'interpolate' the data to create your own loads.

Mistered wrote:...the 9.7 grain load that shows 1447 FPS is exactly the same as the Alliant powder site shows so I suspect that is where this M. D. Smith got it from.
Stick with the powder mfg. sites or your manual for your data to start with until you learn to 'interpolate' the data to create your own loads.

I couldn't agree more. Recent reloading manuals are the best sources for data, but I tend to think that bullet manufacturers' data is more reliable than powder manufacturers; though that is a subjective opinion.

M.D. Smith wrote:These loads are all out of manufacturer's manuals (over 18 years) or tested with less than maximum loads. Some older 1995 manuals show higher amounts of powder than the new 2013 load manuals. That is because powder companies have changed ownership, manufacturer and sometimes formulation and the NEW powders are generally faster. Keep this in mind also. Your gun(s) may NOT handle maximum loads. Most loads shown ARE MAXIMUM loads.

http://www.reloadammo.com/reload.htm

So far, I've not been able to find a current mfr site or handbook listing that shows both Unique and this specific Horandy 110 gr HP boolit.

Alliant's site shows a recipe with a Speer 110 gr "UCHP" (?) and a 125 gr Speer "GDHP" (again - ?). Must dig deeper, grasshopper...

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... rtridge=28

Looks like UCHP and GDHP are Speer proprietary acronyms, not unlike Hornady's "XTP." It's a Jacketed, Hollow-Point boolit.

but I tend to think that bullet manufacturers' data is more reliable than powder manufacturers; though that is a subjective opinion.

I once read an article about this and I do recall the 'slant' went to the powder mfgs. As most likely having the more reliable data and for a few good reasons.
The powder mfgs. Have their reputations on the line to produce the safest data available - it ain't the bullets that cause the 'Ka-Booms' but overloaded or incorrectly used powder. Many of the 'newer' or lessor known mfgs. Of bullets most likely use powder mfg. data from the POWDER mfgs. As a starting point for their bullets since they are most likely not going to invest the time and money to 'reinvent the wheel' when a starting point already exists.
Over the years whenever I have read about an ammo problem it seems to be from a mfg. of non-major name bullets who started producing loaded ammo for sale. One of these is Buffalo Bore - it always seems they receive a higher percentage of complaints than other manufacturers.

Never shot any 110 in 357 either. Never wanted to go that small. I have been shooting some Montana Gold 125grhp and they have been working real well. Ive been using up some red dot to shoot them with.

The only reason I stick with 158s is because I shoot the same ammo out of my mod 66 and there is the issue of the cracking K frame forcing cones but with as much as I have read on it I think it was a 'fluke' that only affected certain K frame guns - and possibly not all ammo related.
And it reduces the number of boxes of bullets I have around.

ESquared wrote:So far, I've not been able to find a current mfr site or handbook listing that shows both Unique and this specific Horandy 110 gr HP boolit.

Alliant's site shows a recipe with a Speer 110 gr "UCHP" (?) and a 125 gr Speer "GDHP" (again - ?). Must dig deeper, grasshopper...

Richard Lee's Modern Reloading, Second Edition lists data on page 524 for a generic 110 grain Jacketed Bullet using Unique, starting at 8.5 (1291 fps) and Max at 9.7 (1447 fps)

You might check out Zero Bullets from Roze distribution. They are good bullets and can be bought cheaper than the speer hornady sierra, and the rest of the name brands. Montana gold is also a good one. There is also your copper plated bullets from Xtreme and Berrys. I have some of the Berrys and Xtreme in the basement now.

BigAl52 wrote:You might check out Zero Bullets from Roze distribution. They are good bullets...

I second that recommendation. Great bullets at great prices.
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... de=ZBJ-38S

agree .... we use their 158 gr JHP's

CT_Shooter wrote:

ESquared wrote:So far, I've not been able to find a current mfr site or handbook listing that shows both Unique and this specific Horandy 110 gr HP boolit.

Alliant's site shows a recipe with a Speer 110 gr "UCHP" (?) and a 125 gr Speer "GDHP" (again - ?). Must dig deeper, grasshopper...

Richard Lee's Modern Reloading, Second Edition lists data on page 524 for a generic 110 grain Jacketed Bullet using Unique, starting at 8.5 (1291 fps) and Max at 9.7 (1447 fps)

Very interesting. My Lyman (50th Ed.) has a 110 gr HP table, and suggests starting Unique @ 7.4 fr for 1,489 fps and Maxing out at 10.0 gr for 1,873 fps.

While that seems like a pretty big discrepancy on both the bottom and top ends, I'd say we've got it surrounded.

FWIW, the Lyman manual shows 2400 as the most accurate, @ 20.3 gr for 2,291 fps!