BHN Number

[JEBar]

in another thread, this link was provided ==== http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloa ... uct_id=446 ==== as can be seen they note this 45-70 500 Grain RNFP - COATED bullets are hard cast bullet is cast with 92-6-2 certified alloy (BHN 16) .... I know BHN = Brinell Hardness Number .... but, for example, I don't have a good understanding of just that a BHN of 16 really means .... is it a lead bullet that will mushroom quickly ? .... will it not mushroom and penetrate deeply ? .... comments from anyone who does understand this scale would be appreciated ....

[Squatch]

My impression is that a BHN of 16 is a moderate hard cast bullet. I've been using Missouri Bullet Company's Hard Cast bullets of around BHN 18 with no leading in both my 44 mag and 45/70. But I'm keeping speeds moderate. As in under 1,250-1,400 fps.

My understanding is that a BHN of 12-14 is for specials and speeds under 900fps.

BHN of 18 for light magnum loads. As in 44 mag not 458 win mag.

500 gr bullets aren't really for expansion. They tend to penetrate deeply.

http://missouribullet.com/technical.php

The best info out there is the Lyman cast bullet manual. If loading lead you should have it.

[JEBar]

My impression is that a BHN of 16 is a moderate hard cast bullet. I've been using Missouri Bullet Company's Hard Cast bullets of around BHN 18 with no leading in both my 44 mag and 45/70. But I'm keeping speeds moderate. As in under 1,250-1,400 fps.

in the info given they state that with the coating they use, muzzle velocity can increased without any issue

BHN of 18 for light magnum loads. As in 44 mag not 458 win mag.

makes me wonder about what hardness would be best for a 45-70 .... as you noted, Missouri Bullet Company shows a BHN of 18 for its coated bullets

500 gr bullets aren't really for expansion. They tend to penetrate deeply.

that's part of my confusion, I would have expected a higher BHN in a bullet designed for penetration

The best info out there is the Lyman cast bullet manual. If loading lead you should have it.

I have one at home in NC and couldn't agree more as to it being an excellent info source

[Squatch]

18 is a pretty hard bullet. You are not going to dig your thumbnail into those. Especially the coated ones.

I haven't recovered any fired ones so can't say what they look like after impact.

I know they will put a hurtin' on regular plate steel that's not hardened out of both the 44 and 45/70.

I'm beginning to dislike the term "Hard Cast". It covers way too much territory these days. I've got bullets from a local caster labeled as hard cast and they are quite soft and lead badly in my 44's.

[JEBar]

the 500 gr is what really caught my attention .... 405 is about the largest I've seen from most companies .... the heaviest jacketed 45-70 bullets I've seen are 400 grain'ers from Barnes and Sierra .... I'd sure like to see a 500 jacketed

[clovishound]

With coated, the hardness is not much of an issue in my understanding. The only time I have had trouble with leading in coated, is when either the coating was very fragile, or if I cut the coating with an overly aggressive crimp, or not enough flare.

Not sure how much expansion you would get with a non hollow point profile regardless of hardness.

[JEBar]

good points and an excellent question .... in continuing to read about barrel leading, I found this most interesting quote from the Missouri Bullet Company :

"A common conception is that when it comes to lead bullets, harder lead equals less leading. This is a false perception!"

their most interesting explanation can be read at this link === https://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php===

[JNG3]

Check out the good folks at the castboolit forum. They can steer you in the right direction. BHN is the hardness of the lead alloy. 16 BHN is useful for magnum revolvers and some rifles. However size is far more important than hardness. You should slug the bore to find the exact diameter. Than go .001 to .003" over the groove diameter. The type of lube can be critical as well. Don't get hung up on BHN only, there are other factors at play that matter just as much if not more than simple hardness!

[DAVIDF]

JEBar,

Yes, lots of information at castboolit forum. Also at Beartooth in their FAQ's http://beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm.

A BHN of 16 would not be considered very hard and probably not the best for really large game. But, if you harden with the wrong alloys, then it is also too brittle. Beartooth talks about using an alloy with a low antimony content of only about 3% and heat treating to a BHN of 21 to 22. They claim that results in a bullet that is hard but not brittle.

But, a softer bullet can give better accuracy than a harder bullet if both are not sized properly for the firearm. It takes about 22k psi for the 16 BHN bullet to obturate while the 22 BHN bullet takes about 31k psi. At least that is the theory, nothing that I have scientifically proven

Based on my limited trials, a properly sized bullet can give you great accuracy and limited leading with not a lot of work.

As an aside, I think plated bullets, especially in larger bores could probably work really well on lots of fairly large game. I am basing this on terminal ballistics testing of plated shotgun slugs and buckshot. Even though the plated slugs and buckshot are a very soft alloy (or perhaps pure lead) they perform significantly better in terminal ballistics testing than the non-plated slugs and buckshot. A plated slug will perform about as well thru an extremely hard barrier such as safety glass. They penetrate about the same in organic ballistic gelatin as a hard cast slug from Brenneke after passing thru a windshield (which is extremely hard on bullets) with great weight retention. Non-plated slugs don't retain much weight even in bare gelatin.

[DAVIDF]

I still think you need to try these http://beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/ ... ght.htm/21 in your .45-70 and let us know the results. 1600 or 1700 fps with a 525 gr bullet is quite a bit. They claim they designed them to work in a Marlin 1895. Should work great in your Henry.

[Hogstir]

Does using a bullet with a gas check affect what diameter bullet will be best utilized?
I see people at castboolits saying to slug your barrel then use a slightly larger diameter bullet than your bore size.
Does a bullet with a gas check at all change this?
Also when using a bullet with a gas check can a softer lead be used than without a gas check and still not create a leading problem?

[JEBar]

Does using a bullet with a gas check affect what diameter bullet will be best utilized?
I see people at castboolits saying to slug your barrel then use a slightly larger diameter bullet than your bore size.
Does a bullet with a gas check at all change this?
Also when using a bullet with a gas check can a softer lead be used than without a gas check and still not create a leading problem?

being fairly new to the wonderful world of firing lead bullets, I've spent a good bit of time reading and trying to figure it out .... what I have learned is, you can make the process as complicated as wish .... your understanding about slugging seems to be recommended by a bunch of folks .... if you plan to mold your own bullets, I can see it being beneficial .... the relationship between hardness and lead buildup isn't as clear as it was before I started researching it .... a case of the more you learn the less you know .... I found this link to info from a good manufacture of lead bullets helped to clarify it for me : https://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php .... one of the issues for me has been lead bullets usually come in large lots .... if you by 500 and don't like the way they perform, you've still get a bunch of them .... thankfully, none of our Henry rifles (357/44 Mag/45-70) have proven to be finicky

[Hogstir]

JEBar, do you have any trouble cycling SWC bullets in your 357 Henry?

[JEBar]

JEBar, do you have any trouble cycling SWC bullets in your 357 Henry?

none whatsoever in 357 casings .... we have fired well over a thousand .357 Action! - Hi-Tek http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= and well over a thousand more standard .357 Action! http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= bullets from Missouri Bullet Company .... we have 700+ loaded and ready to go ... in addition we have fired a couple of thousand similar bullets from Oregon Trail .... we have decided that once we need to restock we will be going with the Hi-Tek ones in the first link .... no problems with cycling .... have no clue if it would be the same in 38 casings .... early on we did experiment with 38 Special wadcutters .... did have some cycling problems with some of them

[clovishound]

I shoot coated SWCs through my BBS in .357 all the time. I prefer the Xtreme plated HPs, but the coated can be had every day for much less, and perform similarly.

[tx gunrunner]

I make my own bullets and molds for my matches . Wheel weights I keep under 900 fps and no leading . 25 lbs lead to 1 lbs tin I keep under 1400 fps and no leading . I use the pure lead for muzzle loaders and I can drive them over 1600 fps but pure lead cast like crap . I find the harder the bullet the faster they lead . Here is the BEST book you can get below if you can find one and the Lyman book is a good one too

[DAVIDF]

Does using a bullet with a gas check affect what diameter bullet will be best utilized?
I see people at castboolits saying to slug your barrel then use a slightly larger diameter bullet than your bore size.
Does a bullet with a gas check at all change this?
Also when using a bullet with a gas check can a softer lead be used than without a gas check and still not create a leading problem?

I have no experience using gas checked bullets but here is my understanding. The gas check should help prevent or decrease the leading with improperly sized or softer lead as it should provide a seal, but not sure if it will provide any better accuracy. Beartooth recommends proper sizing of the bullets whether they are gas checked or not, and they sell both gas checked and plain base bullets.

[Hogstir]

I've read lots of warnings NOT to shoot jacketed bullets after shooting lead bullets unless you have cleaned the lead deposits from the barrel first.
Does this hold true when shooting coated lead bullets as well?

[DAVIDF]

I shoot plated bullets all the time after shooting lead. There is one theory that it can clean some of the lead. Not sure if it does or not.

Polygonal rifled barrels, like Glock barrels can have issues if a lot of lead is fired thru them and then a jacketed bullet. If lead deposits are extremely heavy in the polygonal barrel then a jacketed bullet is shot thru it, pressure can spike and cause damage to the barrel or worse. But, that is after quite a bit not a few rounds.

[tx gunrunner]

Plated bullets are cast bullets with a thin coating of copper alloy LIKE sprayed on them . They are NOT copper jacket . Plated bullet were design too shoot in indoor ranges to cut poisons gasses down . For $100 you can get a Lone Wolf barrel to shoot cast or plated bullets and keep the Glock barrel for jacket bullets only . I'm not going to write a book on do's and don't of cast or plated bullets in Glock barrel . I know people who shot 1000's cast bullets in there Glock with no problems and I know 2 people in Tn that weren't that lucky . That is why I have a Lone Wolf barrels for cast bullets for my Glocks .