Loading .357 With The 110 XTP

[rickhem]

I bought a box of the Hornady 110 XTP bullets and worked up some loads for my Big Boy. I have an old bottle of 296, and looked back through a number of older reloading books, and it looks like everyone has basically the same charge weights. Even Hodgdon's on-line data matched. Start load is 22.0 grains, and a max load is 23.0 grains. So I loaded ten at 22.0, ten at 22.5, and ten at 23.0.
The good from this was that the difference in charge weight didn't really change the place on the target where the rounds hit. With my rifle zeroed for 50 yards with my 158 XTP FP and Lil Gun load, the 110 bullets, no matter what charge weight, were about 5-6 inches high, and about 1-2 inches right. Not surprising with a variation of less than 5% on powder charge. All the groups were of similar size too. But that leads me to the bad part, which is that all groups were 4-5 inches in size. I didn't mess around with adjusting my scope, just let the groups form and see how well each charge weight did.

My first thought is that trying to push this bullet at 2300 to 2400 fps is just too fast. Looking at all the places where load data is posted for both handgun and rifle, it seems like the exact same loads are used for both. Like they just took handgun loads and fired them through a rifle to collect some data, then published it. My loads through a 6 or 8 inch revolver may work well, but my rifle didn't like them, at least not at 50 yards.

I'm going to load some up with different powders and try to get them to about 1800 FPS and see how those group. My hope was to have a load that would shoot a very rapidly expanding bullet at a high velocity for groundhogs and such, but it needs to group much better than I'm getting so far.

[rickhem]

So to continue the efforts, I decided to try two faster powders with the 110 XTP. I tried loads with 231 powder, and with AA9. Interesting that the ranges listed for these powders are not very wide. The 231 load was listed towards the middle of the range in the manuals, as was the AA9 load, but both were listed to produce velocities around 1600 to1700 FPS. I figured one would be a slow push, and the other a faster push.

I set my target out at about 35 yards, and fired five shot groups, two with 231, and two with AA9. Not a very exhaustive study, but enough that I'll see if there is potential. All shots impacted significantly lower on the target than my loads with Lil Gun and the 158 XTP, so that shows the reduced velocity, as well as the greatly reduced recoil. The winner, if you can call it that, was the AA9 loads, but all groups finished at around three inches, with not much difference in group size or shape. While that would be acceptable for me at 100 yards, it's not acceptable at a third that distance.

I'm getting the distinct impression that my Henry wants a longer bullet. I've read that these rifles have a 16 twist, and other places say a 20 twist. I'll admit that I never really checked that for myself, and I'll have to do that now, if only for my own knowledge.

I'm loading up some of the 140 FTX bullets with a moderate charge of Lil Gun, a load that has grouped very well for me previously in this rifle, and if that still groups well, I'll probably abandon my efforts to get a high velocity load with the 110 bullets for this rifle.

[DsGrouse]

I didn't have great luck with 110's in my BBX. (I tried unique, be86, and 4227) Now 125's, that is a different story. Sierra 125's, I was getting a 10shot group at 50 yards slightly larger than a quarter. IIRC speeds were about 1900 out of the Henry with 4227 powder. It was sufficient to take a Doe at 109yds. She dropped in 3 steps.

[rickhem]

I didn't have great luck with 110's in my BBX. (I tried unique, be86, and 4227) Now 125's, that is a different story. Sierra 125's, I was getting a 10shot group at 50 yards slightly larger than a quarter. IIRC speeds were about 1900 out of the Henry with 4227 powder. It was sufficient to take a Doe at 109yds. She dropped in 3 steps.

That's a great result and I appreciate you sharing the bullet and powder. Haven't seen the Sierra 125 by me, but everyone has the XTPs.
I haven't shot the 140s yet, but maybe I'll see about taking a look at a 125 grain bullet.

[CT_Shooter]

...maybe I'll see about taking a look at a 125 grain bullet.

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ZERO 125 grain Hollow Point Bullets
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... de=ZBJ-38S

ZERO 125 grain Soft Point Bullets
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[rickhem]

I am a big fan of Zero bullets CT_Shooter, and still have a box or two (500) of their swaged HBWC bullets. I just don't want to be loading up on 1000 of something that I haven't vetted first.
A price of less than $15 per hundred bullets is hard to beat though.

[rickhem]

So another follow up. Got a chance to shoot the 140FTX load that worked for me before. Picture is here:

140FTX and Lil Gun.JPG (84.55 KiB) Viewed 2191 times

That was fired at 50 yards, and it was after a little scope adjustment on earlier shots/groups. Seems like the rifle tightens up after a few rounds downrange, so this was the last and best group. Still may be able to click a bit left to really center that up, but I'm ok with it there for now. That load shot at an average of 1825 fps for the five shots you see, and my Pact Model 1 worked like a dream today. Might be able to get more velocity too, and I've had those bullets loaded with a few grains more of Lil Gun, but it looks good enough now that I'm inclined to just stay at the 1800+.
This may just end up being my deer load too, but I'll have to see how those cold bore shots work out in the weeks ahead.

I'm still thinking that I could probably load the 110 XTP down a lot, and get good groups, but since these 140s and the 158s all shoot well, it really doesn't offer the option I had hoped it would. I'll just shelf the remainder of the 110s until something else pops up.

[BigAl52]

Do yourself a favor and do some research on the FTX bullet as a hunting bullet. Me myself if I were to choose a bullet for deer hunting it would be the XTP bullet in 158 grain. Also Lil gun is okay in rifles but I stay away from it in pistols. Its hard on forcing cones. Freedom Arms says dont use it in there guns. I might be off base here but it seems as though you are fixed on the speed of your bullet. Thats a nice group but Im not a big fan of that bullet. Just my.02 worth

[rickhem]

Thanks Al. Appreciate your response.
Not fixed on speed, but it's a big part of the equation. As good as that 158 XTP is, it wouldn't be so good at 700 FPS, it wouldn't open up. Might as well be a FMJ at that speed. Staying at or above the range that a bullet is designed for is important, especially for an expanding projectile like a HP
The deal with Lil Gun is probably a good subject for a topic unto itself.

[5shot]

I can't speak from experience with 110's because I've never loaded any. I do know that if you kick the 125 gr. XTP out at 1700 to 1800 fps any varmint inside of a hundred yards is going to come unraveled. I'd take a guess that accuracy would be much better too.
I have never loaded the FTX either but your rifle sure seems to like them.