Henry Rifle Forums

Have you ever heard of the "Glock smile"?

It's a mark Glock pistols leave on the brass when you start running loads a little too hot...it's caused by the case expanding into the unsupported area of the chamber where the feed ramp is cut into the barrel.

Henry Big Boys do it too... looks just like it does on Glock pistols.

When you see it, back the load down until it goes away... and that is your max, regardless of what the load book says.

well stated

I've never seen it on any of my Henry fired cases. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just I've never seen it. I have seen it on brass at the range, presumably run through a Glock. Other manufacturers have varying degrees of unsupported chambers, but Glock is most famous for it.

Of course, I normally load on the conservative end of the spectrum, unless there is something to be gained by loading close to max. As I'm usually loading target fodder, middle of the road is usually what I aim for.

Thanks for the tip, I’ll keep an eye out. Like Clovis I load on the mild side as my Big Boys seems to do better at lower velocities.

Ridgerunner, what part of the case is deforming. I do not own a Glock but I have never seen the mouth a case out of round. It seems to me if the chamber is not round and pressure is not sufficient to seal the case to the chamber wall you will have blow back. I have had blow back problems with 45 colt that was solved by only resizing the case just enough to seat the bullet and using faster powder to build up a faster pressure curve. Is the base of the case that is out of round?

This picture isn't mine, just something I swiped off the web to illustrate the Glock smile... this is a really bad one, but it gives you an idea of what to look for and where to look for it.

I found all this out while working up some new loads with different powders. Up until yesterday I had mostly been using AA4100/Enforcer for full power hunting loads and Unique for range loads.

The Unique load is OK but it is weak for a rifle with a 16.5" barrel (1,300 fps with 210 grain bullets), more powerful loads could be worked up for a 4 inch revolver.

I was working with AA9 and Longshot powder yesterday, powders I already had and need to use...Hornady #7 and #10 both say 19.2 grains is max with AA9 and the 210 XTP... Western powders data says 16.9 grains is max with the same bullet, and their data is the correct one in this case.

17 grains was fine, at 18 grains I noticed what I thought to be the very slight beginnings of the smile, it was here that I opened the lever and took a good look at the chamber and feed ramp to see the layout... at 19 grains there was no question about what I was seeing... the case was bulging into the feedramp cut.

41 mag brass is well built and strong, and the mark is "mostly" way down low on the case, where the brass is very thick...but the top of it is high enough to blow out with a hot enough load.

I think its a good thing though, with a lot of lever rounds the pressure isn't high enough to cause flat/blown primers, bolt face marks, difficult extraction or any other traditional pressure signs until its too late... the first indication of an unsafe load in a lever action is often a blown up rifle, stitches, bruises, and eye patches.

But that feedramp cut, it gives a reliable indicator of when to say when, if one knows to look for it...I didn't know to look for it in pistol caliber lever guns until yesterday, but I'm glad I found it.

And as an FYI.... the firearm I'm using is a Big Boy steel carbine in 41 magnum.

Also...I hear you guys... there's nothing at all wrong with using moderate loads.

Me, I want my loads safe by all means, but I do prefer them to be up around at least 95% to 98% of the power/pressure the round is rated for...as powerful and accurate as they can safely be without ruining brass or the firearm...I go through a lot of rounds on the range, but many of mine are hunting loads as well, and I've stretched this little rifle to 150 yards on more than one occasion... and even a little over 200 yards on a coyote once, took 3 shots but I nailed him.

Thanks for the picture and posting. I have never seen or heard of this before.

Y'all are welcome...I hope it helps someone...I never had heard of it in lever guns either.

That's why I posted it, I don't post much on the forums these days but when I found this my first thought was to share it here so others would know and hopefully save someone from a very bad day at the range.