Oregon Trail Bullets

[Blackdog]

I shoot in lever action silhouette matches. Early on I found that the diameter of the bullet has to be one you rifle likes or it will lead the bore.
In a 60 round match enough lead will build up that your accuracy goes south quickly.
* My experience with .452 Bullets: 40 yards - somewhat normal accuracy, next 15 shots at 50 yards - started missing "easy" shots. After 30 shots moved to 75 yards and was lucky to hit one in 5. After 45 rounds of "too small" cast bullets I moved to 100 yard targets- shot over, under, left, right...no hits at all.
My .45 Colt rifle wanted .454 bullets, not .452. After several cleaning sessions I finally got all the lead out - and switched to .454 cast bullets and made the decision that my other rifles would shoot only jacketed ammo.
After I sold the .45 rifle I never loaded cast again.
M

[ESquared]

Buying 500 bullets is a leap of faith

Maybe but I suspect they will shoot very well.
I would recommend if you do get them to start with 158 grain as you will have the weight the .357 was optimized with as the 'standard'.
Heck I might try some of these myself!

This whole conversation is about a rifle I don't even own yet, as crazy as that may seem (or, in my case, not so much!), a 45 Colt Brass Carbine.

[ESquared]

I shoot in lever action silhouette matches. Early on I found that the diameter of the bullet has to be one you rifle likes or it will lead the bore.
In a 60 round match enough lead will build up that your accuracy goes south quickly.
* My experience with .452 Bullets: 40 yards - somewhat normal accuracy, next 15 shots at 50 yards - started missing "easy" shots. After 30 shots moved to 75 yards and was lucky to hit one in 5. After 45 rounds of "too small" cast bullets I moved to 100 yard targets- shot over, under, left, right...no hits at all.
My .45 Colt rifle wanted .454 bullets, not .452. After several cleaning sessions I finally got all the lead out - and switched to .454 cast bullets and made the decision that my other rifles would shoot only jacketed ammo.
After I sold the .45 rifle I never loaded cast again.
M

Thank you for this, Blackdog, because it highlights one of the things about reloading that so far is driving me crazy. I know it may be limited to a small number of calibers, but the whole "When is a 45 bullet not a 45 bullet?" is frustrating.

It's not clear from your post WHICH 45 colt rifle you were reloading for. Was it not a Henry? The reason it's important (I guess) is that other Henry-owning, 45 Colt-reloading members here have indicated that .452" diameter is the right diameter for the Henry 45 Colt barrel.

I'll circle back with them to confirm, but guys like BigAl and RifleTom didn't seem to hesitate...

[JEBar]

just curious .... how do you envision using the 45 .. .. hunting, range, both .. .. historically, I've made bullet selections base on hunting .... believing in practicing with what you hunt with, the hunting ammo also served as practice ammo .... because of our 45-70, that has recently changed .... it is a rifle I want to fire often and its recoil with hunting ammo is such that I don't find doing so to be fun .... while I'd love the opportunity to do so, realistically I'll never hunt with it .... in keeping with the concept of matching the ammo to the use, I'm working on light range load

[ESquared]

just curious .... how do you envision using the 45 .. .. hunting, range, both .. .. historically, I've made bullet selections base on hunting .... believing in practicing with what you hunt with, the hunting ammo also served as practice ammo .... because of our 45-70, that has recently changed .... it is a rifle I want to fire often and its recoil with hunting ammo is such that I don't find doing so to be fun .... while I'd love the opportunity to do so, realistically I'll never hunt with it .... in keeping with the concept of matching the ammo to the use, I'm working on light range load

I envision this as a range gun, primarily, both indoors and outdoors, as I'd like to see how different loads do at distances beyond 50 yds, which is all I can get indoors. I feel like I've got my hunting needs covered.

[JEBar]

I envision this as a range gun, primarily, both indoors and outdoors, as I'd like to see how different loads do at distances beyond 50 yds, which is all I can get indoors. I feel like I've got my hunting needs covered.

as a range rifle, it should really be a fun one to fire .... if/when you get started, I'm really looking forward to following your progress in finding a load that works for you

[wingnut]

I'll circle back with them to confirm, but guys like BigAl and RifleTom didn't seem to hesitate...

For modern arms, .452" for lead (swaged or cast), plated & coated. .451" if jacketed.

[mrguvna]

I have used these bullets for years in my 45-70 and my 32 special. I have never had a problem and the accuracy is fine. they make a quality bullet.

As far as not shooting jacketed and lead in the same gun..........If I ever end up with a leaded barrel from undersized lead bullets it is easily cleaned by firing a few jacketed bullets. Everybody has an opinion on this and do not want to offend the folks who claim this is a bad idea but it works.

I also routinely shoot cast and jacketed out of my rifles with not problems. although in the light of full disclosure I have not tried cast bullets in my 44 mag just yet. it seems to hot a round to justify keeping in the lower velocities, so I will most likely stick with jacketed.

[Shakey Jake]

I think I might try some of the .313 115 gr bullets in the .327 Federal Mag when I finish my supply of jacketed bullets. I'm going to measure the barrel with a pin gage and see what it specs at the end. I have a premonition that it's probably a tad bit more than it should be ( I tend to overthink this stuff.)

[Blackdog]

I shoot in lever action silhouette matches. Early on I found that the diameter of the bullet has to be one you rifle likes or it will lead the bore.
In a 60 round match enough lead will build up that your accuracy goes south quickly.
* My experience with .452 Bullets: 40 yards - somewhat normal accuracy, next 15 shots at 50 yards - started missing "easy" shots. After 30 shots moved to 75 yards and was lucky to hit one in 5. After 45 rounds of "too small" cast bullets I moved to 100 yard targets- shot over, under, left, right...no hits at all.
My .45 Colt rifle wanted .454 bullets, not .452. After several cleaning sessions I finally got all the lead out - and switched to .454 cast bullets and made the decision that my other rifles would shoot only jacketed ammo.
After I sold the .45 rifle I never loaded cast again.
M

Thank you for this, Blackdog, because it highlights one of the things about reloading that so far is driving me crazy. I know it may be limited to a small number of calibers, but the whole "When is a 45 bullet not a 45 bullet?" is frustrating.

It's not clear from your post WHICH 45 colt rifle you were reloading for. Was it not a Henry? The reason it's important (I guess) is that other Henry-owning, 45 Colt-reloading members here have indicated that .452" diameter is the right diameter for the Henry 45 Colt barrel.

I'll circle back with them to confirm, but guys like BigAl and RifleTom didn't seem to hesitate...

The rifle in question was a Rossi. It liked .454 bullets only. Put a .45acp bullet in it and it would streak with lead.
I had a similar experience with my Winchester 24" 30-30 - shot cast lead (with silver alloy) and gas checks...at the end of a 40 round match, at 1800fps, there was 1/8th of an inch of lead protruding from the barrel - a shiny ring of lead. I have never used cast bullets since.
Michael

[Flinch]

I shoot .310 Laser Cast bullets through my 1903 Springfield, which I use to compete in a monthly Vintage Rifle Match. With a light charge of HS-6, it will shoot 10 shot 1" groups at 50 meters. The barrel slugs at .308". The load chronographs at 1139 fps and I can shoot 100 rounds without leading. After I push a loose fitting patch through the bore, the bore shines like a mirror.

My .357 Rossi 1892 lever action shoots .358" bullets well. The barrel slugs at 0.3565". Accurate lead reloads chronograph between 950 fps and 1100 fps. I don't see much leading; it depends on what gunpowder I use. The faster the gunpowder, the more evidence of leading I will see, but it is not terrible. If I shoot SNS Casting coated bullets, there is no sign of leading regardless of gunpowder used.

I believe that you have to use lead bullets that are 0.002" over the bore size to prevent leading. That is what I do for 30-06 and 8mm Mauser loads and it has worked well for the past 20 years.

[ESquared]

The rifle in question was a Rossi. It liked .454 bullets only. Put a .45acp bullet in it and it would streak with lead.
I had a similar experience with my Winchester 24" 30-30 - shot cast lead (with silver alloy) and gas checks...at the end of a 40 round match, at 1800fps, there was 1/8th of an inch of lead protruding from the barrel - a shiny ring of lead. I have never used cast bullets since.
Michael

I don't know enough about this topic to comment as to why that might have happened. Maybe others have some thoughts and/or questions, but I'll leave that to them.

By way of closing the loop, I ordered a box (500) of the Missouri Bullets Hy Tek, 45 Cal, 250 gr, .452" dia, coated bullets a couple of days ago. May try the Oregon Trails in the future.

Thanks for everyone's input on this topic - learning something new all the time!