.357 Magnum New Factory Cartridge Case Diagnostics

[shootinthecinders]

Has the quality of new factory ammo deteriorated or is there a good deal of trial and error involved in choosing suitable pistol ammo for a lever action rifle?
The following photos show some examples of case separation in one Henry barrel before being replaced with another barrel. The more I read; the more I’m beginning to suspect it’s ammo related.
First pic is of 158gr Selier&Bellot. 1. Unfired cartridge 2. Fired cartridge from original Henry barrel demonstrating ring 3. Case separation in original barrel 4. New barrel with same lot/box of ammo:

F5D831F3-FFD5-42D0-B526-986F5B2AC473.jpeg (2.77 MiB) Viewed 2526 times

The next photo is 200gr Grizzly. First photo is the unfired cartridge and the next three are showing the order they were fired in. Notice on the last cartridge on right a deep cut/bulge:

2AB99594-8EDE-4157-BD1A-1426E24A20C7.jpeg (2.87 MiB) Viewed 2526 times

The last photo demonstrates the Grizzly ammo primers in the same order as above. Notice the far right primer:

2AB99594-8EDE-4157-BD1A-1426E24A20C7.jpeg (2.87 MiB) Viewed 2526 times

[shootinthecinders]

My apologies for photo quality and duplicate photo. All comments are greatly appreciated especially if you have had any similar experiences with factory ammo.
The other ammo looked fine: PMC 158gr .357 Mag, American Eagle 158gr .357 mag, and the last rounds shot Remington 125gr .38 special +P. All of these rounds were jacketed.

[JEBar]

we haven't fired a factory round in decades so from that standpoint, I have no clue .... what I can tell you the Remington, Winchester and Federal casings that I've had and reloaded who knows how many times since the mid '60's have thicker/stiffer sidewalls than the new brass we have purchased and/or picked up along the way .... that is most certainly true for our Starline brass .... it does perform well but it is very different from the brass of old

[shootinthecinders]

JEBar, do you have any thoughts on what caused the cut in the last 200gr Grizzly cartridge? Was it just a coincidence that the case got worse from the previous cases shown?
I also need some help with the terminology for the Grizzly case defect. It’s not a separation yet, more of a cut and constriction.

[Jdl447]

That 200gr bullet looks awful long for a rifle. Are you sure the nose isn't tight against the lands?

[Abnermal]

.357 and 38 specials headspace on the rim. The rims on these rounds looked weird to me when I enlarged them. But then again it may be my tired old eyes.I've never seen rimmed cartridges look like that. Bottlenecked yes-but not rimmed.

[shootinthecinders]

That 200gr bullet looks awful long for a rifle. Are you sure the nose isn't tight against the lands?

No it’s not. In fact they cycle really well. I haven’t slugged the barrel but from what I’ve read, this cartridge is well within specs for the chamber.

[shootinthecinders]

.357 and 38 specials headspace on the rim. The rims on these rounds looked weird to me when I enlarged them. But then again it may be my tired old eyes.I've never seen rimmed cartridges look like that. Bottlenecked yes-but not rimmed.

I could mic them. What is the acceptable thickness?
Probably not your eyes; just poor photography.

[Abnermal]

.060" is the rim thickness. For a moment I thought the rifle may have fired out of battery. But I don't think that's the case here as there isn't any case rupture. A little puzzling!

[shootinthecinders]

These averaged .058”. I agree it’s puzzling.

[JEBar]

in first part of this link they discuss what looks to be a similar failure ===> http://www.stevespages.com/diagnosingproblems.html <=== with yours being factory loads, I find it hard to believe they would overcharge a round by that much .... have you considered emailing pictures of the failure to the bullet's manufacture ..?.. my hunch is, it would really get their attention

[shootinthecinders]

The last case especially exhibits signs of high pressure. If you look at the far right photo of the primers you can see the bright mark on the case and cratered primer. Before contacting the company, I was looking for advice from the experienced reloaders here. I reloaded a few decades ago and never had a problem with any of my reloads; or did friends I reloaded for as they made one shot kills on antelope and elk.
The thing I don’t understand, as was mentioned previously, was that each case became progressively worse. This is the reason for not firing the remaining seven rounds after observing the third fired round. I fired different ammo after this without a problem.
I’m a little hesitant to jump to any conclusions until after hearing more opinions although it’s evident as you pointed out JEBar, related to high pressure. What I don’t know is whether or not Henry Rifles are sensitive to certain pressures vs other types of firearms. Do they have tighter chambers than other types or brands of rifles? When I sent in my new Henry that had the remaining portion of the separated S&B case in it that was shown in the first photo; HRA replaced the barrel. I honestly didn’t expect that. I thought they would just remove the stuck case, examine the chamber, and perform whatever work was necessary on the chamber. I wasn’t unhappy at all with their solution but would like to know if there are certain ammo restrictions. That’s where I believe the knowledge base on this forum comes into play. The combined experience of the members here should give me the answer and for that; many thanks.

[CharlieW]

I had problems with an older box of the Sellier and Bellot 357 ammo -- several of the cases were split shooting through my rifle. It was definitely a bad batch of ammo, or a box that had not aged well.

[shootinthecinders]

Well no feedback from Grizzly on their cartridges; in fact, total silence. After thoroughly searching the internet I understand why. I’ve come to the conclusion that although this ammo is manufactured with all new components, there is a weak link in their brass, at least with this particular loading.