Go shooting with a Henry in 2022. Pass a Henry to the next generation and teach them to shoot safely, accurately and often.

45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

All things reloading here
User avatar
DsGrouse
Cowhand
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:07 am
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by DsGrouse » Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:48 pm

When you push past about 975, you end up with the bullet waffling at the sound barrier. It throws accuracy considerably off. If you've done much PCP air rifle/pellet rifle shooting, you can actually see this effect starting at 950fps when the skirt of a pellet starts catching the light as it makes its way through the air.

For suppressed rifles shooting suppressed rounds, it makes a difference, again, you can see this in shooting good subsonic 22lr's. the more they are above 975, your groups will open up. That is because the bullet is trying to push through the sound barrier.

So, 950 to 975 is pretty much the magic number to aim for. You get the most velocity, and the best chance at accuracy. If i can drop 265, 280, 300, 315 grain rounds at 975 i will be quite happy.
0 x

TheBackyardRange
Cowhand
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 1:36 am
Location: IL
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by TheBackyardRange » Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:30 pm

You might see that with lighter, slimmer bullets but I have doubts you will see that with a 250gr+ 45 bullet. Those bullets tend to be much more stable crossing the transonic barrier. 9mm and under, I try to stay away from breaking the barrier unless I am over 1250fps. Anything bigger than that, I don't worry about it. 22 vs 45 Its kind of the difference between throwing an arrow vs throwing a rock. One is far more susceptible to air disturbance than the other.
0 x
“If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” ― Ronald Reagan

User avatar
DsGrouse
Cowhand
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:07 am
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by DsGrouse » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:18 pm

Not a great day on the range. Out of my many test loads, I had 2 good groups and 3 groups I think I can start working with. Now that I have unique, I may swap over to work with that. I have a new scale on the way, as in the middle of reloading last night it started to miss read weights. I will wait until it gets here before i start in on another attempt.
0 x

User avatar
Rifletom
Deputy Marshal
Posts: 3338
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 pm
Location: California Territory
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by Rifletom » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:25 pm

DsGrouse wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:18 pm
Not a great day on the range. Out of my many test loads, I had 2 good groups and 3 groups I think I can start working with. Now that I have unique, I may swap over to work with that. I have a new scale on the way, as in the middle of reloading last night it started to miss read weights. I will wait until it gets here before i start in on another attempt.
Another digital or a good beam type scale?
1 x

User avatar
DsGrouse
Cowhand
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:07 am
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by DsGrouse » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:09 pm

I didn't only pick up a scale. I've liked my lee pro 1k for 9 and 45. It seems well enough for those two, but the long straight wall cases of 38,357 and 45c seem to flex the shell plate quite a bit. I get inconsistent bullet seating and crimping. As of now I am sizing in a separate step, seating in another on my app, and crimping back on the pro 1k.

It isn't really suited for the kind of precision I am looking for. My 9, 40, 357 sig, 45 it does well with. I can crank out a couple of hundred rounds without much fuss. But, I'm not finding a solution to my accuracy problems.

I picked up a layman brass smith 8 station turret press. I am hoping the single ram, and the single die station it activates provide for more stability and less, for the lack of a better word, flex in the unit. It has good reviews, and I hope it helps me nail down some of the problems I've been doing my best to deal with.

As for the scale, I picked up a rcbs charge master. Yes, it is digital, but it has good reviews. The platten and the load cells supposedly can handle the warmer temperatures that my room usually has. For 9,40, 45, 357 sig, I will probably still use my powder through the expansion dropper. It's pretty close to the powders I normally use. The RCBS will be for my 38/45c,300blk 308 subsonic loads I put together. Those two pretty much tapped me out. Next paycheck I'll likely pick up an analog scale for checking the lee powder dropper i have.
0 x

TheBackyardRange
Cowhand
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 1:36 am
Location: IL
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by TheBackyardRange » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:18 am

It’s good to have an extra scale on hand to double check. I got a little battery powered pocket scale for quick checks. It starts misweighing when batteries start getting low. Also have an Frankford Arsenal intellidropper for precision loading.
1 x
“If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” ― Ronald Reagan

User avatar
DsGrouse
Cowhand
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:07 am
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by DsGrouse » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:31 am

Well, most of the gear is here; I am waiting on redding dies for 45c and 38spl.
The charge master supreme took a bit to get it to sync with my phone. It can be used without my phone easily. I wanted to use my phone as a way to isolate my actions from the bench the machine is on.

I checked its throw over the last 100 rounds of 45c and 38 spl. I never had one display differently on my other lyman scale. The unit did throw three over's in those two hundred rounds. Most of its mistakes were under, but when checking the drop with the lyman electronic scale it was accurate enough. The worst under-through that I saw was less than .1 grain. both scales registered 6.1 and not the 6.2 of the throw. a tiny bit of trickling and it read 6.2

Image

The app has a little trickle button that allows you a 1/16th of a turn of the dispensing tube.

Nit-picking, Fine powder like this clean shot seems to bounce out of this little mettle tray. I had to watch closely, but the super fine stuff can bounce and fall on the area around the platten. in the couple hundred rounds, i had to sweep the area a couple of times. The amount spilled never reached .1 grain.

The lyman t8 set up with 45c and 38 spl dies
Image
I did not set up the primer station, as I prefer to prime and decap on my app as two separate steps.
Set up was easy, the turret offers a pretty simple workflow, and I feel as if I had much fewer machine-induced errors. I had three errors that are my own fault, but hey, I'll own those.

What do I mean by errors? Well, the brass is all the same, same length, and ran through the same sizing die. On the lee, I would get variations in seating depth and crimp across the board. It always drove me nuts. if I set one load for 1.595, it might run from 1.58 to 1.605. It was annoyingly vague. The feel of the lee, when doing these long straight walled cases, had a lot of flex. No matter how much I tightened things down, the shell plates would still rock and wiggle in the reloading process.

This includes when I ran the plate full and when I separated each step out individually. I was not getting the consistency in seating and crimp that I wished for. Maybe, I need more; It will do, attitude, but that isn't me. Being new to reloading, I am trying to narrow down as much inconsistency as possible.

So, the T8 seemed to cure all that; sizing, flaring, seating, and crimp seem very consistent. Most of the cases are loading at +- .03, according to my calipers.

So what did I do? Well, I took my loads from last go around and added 0.2ths of a grain. I think may help many of these loads still reach that 950-975 fps range. With the more consistent loading, I hope the accuracy will improve. I'm going to give TBR's recommendation a try and bring them all up as close as I can to 1000fps. So I added a second load of 0.4ths of a grain. For a number of the 38's, this was the max recommended load. for the 45c, I have some more room left if I need it.

38spl,
Image
45colt
Image

Wish me luck. If I do not see the accuracy I want, I will change to unique. If I see significant improvement in accuracy, I will likely play with velocity and then seating depth first.
0 x

User avatar
fortyshooter
Drover
Posts: 4939
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:37 am
Location: Va.
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by fortyshooter » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:31 am

Try 6.0 grain Red Dot with 250-255 gr. 45 Colt and see how it shoots. As far as seating depth differences it can vary if bullet OAL varies.

For what I do with 45 44 and 357 few thousandth differences in COL doesn't seem to hurt anything.
2 x

User avatar
DsGrouse
Cowhand
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:07 am
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by DsGrouse » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:56 am

I don't have any red dot as of now. I've cfe pistol, bullseye, tightgroup, longshot, clean shot, and 2lbs of unique that I will try if clean shot doesn't give me the results I am looking for. This press is considerably more consistent in the seating depth, and crimping than the lee. It's noticeable. I am sure a lot of this is my inexperience. It is part of the learning process. Hopefully, i can narrow down a series of good loads to use.

No testing today, as it will be overcast and nasty. I've too many loads to test to set everything up for only 10min of shooting before it starts pissing rain on me.
0 x

User avatar
Rifletom
Deputy Marshal
Posts: 3338
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 pm
Location: California Territory
United States of America

Re: 45 c and Longshot subsonic load data suggestions

Post by Rifletom » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:57 am

forty got me going on Red Dot for the .45 Colt. It works well, very well. Hopefully you can get your hands on some soon.
1 x

Post Reply