Henry Rifle Forums

Question came up on another forum asking about what propellants were used in large bore naval artillery (Cruisers, Battleships, etc.) during WWII. Many people think it was black powder, which is essentially a myth. Smokeless powders started being used around 1908, and included cordite, nitrocellulose, and others that were developed by different countries, and for different guns. Here's some detailed information about this that I thought would be of interest.

For example D839 was one of the US propellants. It's a smokeless powder.

"The propellant was in six bags for both full and reduced charges. Primer patch was at one end, quilted to ensure even distribution, and usually colored red. The other end had a handling strap. Bags were transferred from hoist to loading tray three bags at a time and then all six bags were rammed into the breech with a single stroke. During the 1980s reactivations, some experiments were performed using five bag loads. The D839 propellant grain used for full charges issued for this gun was 2 inches long (5.08 cm), 1 inch in diameter (2.54 cm) and had seven perforations, each 0.060 inches in diameter (0.152 cm) with a web thickness range of 0.193 to 0.197 inches (0.490 to 0.500 cm) between the perforations and the grain diameter. Propellant bags were made from raw silk, although rayon was introduced during the 1980 activations."

More about the various powders used and other info here:

http://www.warships.com.cn/navweaps/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

and here: http://navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-100.php

We had charge 7 whitebag and charge 5 greenbag on 155 mm howitzers. You could take one or multiple bags out. A charge 7 would become a charge 6 with one removed or a charge 5 with two removed. A charge 5 whitebag was not the same as a charge 5 greenbag.

It was definitely not black powder. It did smoke a little but nothing like BP.

Back about 1983-84 one senior member of our gun club, whom I had never met, was selling a High Standard target pistol in our club news letter. He was asking a fair price so I decided to buy it. I went to his house to meet him and purchased the gun, Ed was in his 80's and in poor health, but we sat and talked for awhile. 4 hours later we ended our talk. I was totally fascinated by his military tails from WW-I and WW-II. Just as I was leaving Ed handed me a cardboard box of cartridges and miscellaneous primers he had collected.

The box contained many old antique cartridges including some rim fire rounds (not .22). It also had several, what I believe were mine primers/fuses. In the bottom of the box I found a dozen hollow sticks about 1 1/2" long and 1/2' in diameter. I had no idea what these were, but I put them to the side and kept them. Several years later I found out these were sticks of smokeless powder used in some large artillery shell. Sure enough there was was one broken stick and it ignited and burned just like any smokeless powder outside of a shell/chamber. This was a real learning experience, since I had no idea what the propellant for artillery rounds looked like.

Paul

Interesting post and links. Thanks Gunny. My Dad would liked to have seen this.

Rifletom wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:02 pm

Interesting post and links. Thanks Gunny. My Dad would liked to have seen this.

Thanks, and your welcome. We've come a long ways since that Chinese guy discovered the magic powder.

I asked a couple of my unit buddies and they said the charges did have some black power in the base of each charge sewn into the cotton cloth bag. This was for 155 mm Howitzers. The powder was thrown into the tube after the round was rammed. The breach was closed and the the primer which was about the size of a .410 was inserted into the breach. It was fired with the pull of a lanyard.