Gun Prices

[fortyshooter]

Local shop has a Smith 610 for a 1069. Might need to grab it up as there isnt anything wrong with 10mm. Especially since its a 41

Go get it Al! We ain't getting any younger!!

[FormerParatrooper]

I think the scarcity began during the Clinton years. Especially parts and magazines. Then during the first two years of each of Obama’s terms guns and ammo was difficult to find. That is when I began hoarding. During the Trump term sales slumped for both guns and ammo. Now with Biden in things are hard to find yet just like Obama the worst was in the first two years.

My recommendation is buy whatever and whenever you can because things will get tight again if/when there is a second Biden term.

I’m basing what I say from personal buying experience and also from ATF stats. Does anyone remember the Obama gun salesman of the year joke?

I still remember the days of milsurp on the cheap with a bunch of ammo thrown in. Wish I had kept a lot of those old rifles. How many remember going to flea markets and garage sales to find guns?

Salesman of the year was right.

[Ernie]

LGS had a new Ruger Blackhawk 357 for $899 when I stopped in yesterday. Thought seriously about it but left it alone. I have a bunch of 22 rifles to sell off before I consider another gun since there is no room in the gun safes anymore.

[North Country Gal]

The myth about revolvers being more reliable and simpler is a holdover bias from the very first days of semi-autos. It was very hard for people to trust semi-autos when they first appeared and for some people, it still is to this day.

The military was the first to recognize the superior reliability of the semi-auto, though, for combat use. Think about it. Even the slightest bit of sand/mud/grit working its way into a revolver will lock up a revolver, instantly and with a revolver and all its exposed openings, more opportunities for fouling. Those first 1911s were loosely constructed to be reliable under combat conditions and avoid fouling. When 1911s wore out, the armorers of the time just saved the useable parts, threw them in a bucket and used them to rebuild other 1911s when they wore out. They were actually able to build complete 1911s from left over parts. Ever try to rebuild a revolver from left over parts? Forget it. It's simply not practical because of all the fitting needed.

Still doubt this? Take down a 1911 after 500 rounds of shooting and you'll been amazed at just how clean the action is. The only residue you typically find is at the breech and the muzzle, but the rest of the action is amazingly clean. Shoot 1000 rounds, instead, and you'll find the same. I've seen this many times with all the 1911s I've owned.

We all know how dirty a revolver gets after 500 rounds of shooting. In some cases, the crud buildup can be bad enough to lock up the cylinder, make extraction difficult and so on to the point of the revolver not being functional. Go a thousand rounds with a revolver without cleaning and you have a nightmare on your hands.

Okay, let's talk about Ruger Marks as another example. I once bought a used Ruger Mark that had been shot for unknown thousands of rounds without being cleaned. I doubt the gun had ever been taken down for a cleaning. (This is not unusual for the original Ruger Marks because owners were afraid to take them down.) I stopped at the range on the way home with the Ruger just to function test it and after 50 rounds, no problem. It shot perfectly, no failures of any kind. Got home and stripped it down and was totally shocked to find that the entire action was filled to the top with dirt and crud. No exaggeration, here. I mean the action was filled with gunk from bottom to the very top. There was so much gunk buildup that the hammer coming back had left a groove in the debris.

Okay, let's talk longevity. No revolver ever made can match the lifespan of a semi-auto. Not even close. Ruger Marks used as rental guns at ranges have been known to go hundreds of thousands of rounds with only a few small replacement parts needed, then go for another hundred thousand rounds.

Still in doubt? Take down a Glock and lay all the pieces on a table. No big deal to do. Anyone can do it. Then take down your favorite Smith DA and lay all the pieces on the table - if you can or dare. It's not something the average Smith owner will do, so take it to a gunsmith and have it done. Then compare the parts on both guns and try telling yourself how simple a revolver is and how few parts. Good luck with that.

And this is all reflected own my sixty years of shooting revolvers and semi-autos. Yes, I have had a few semi-autos that had functioning issues, but most of those issues I could solve on my own. I've had more revolvers with functioning issues, though. In fact quite a few more and a lot of those issues I could not solve on my own, so that meant a trip back to Smith or Ruger or to a local gunsmith.

What kind of issues? Revolvers are notorious for light strikes and those can be caused by too much endplay in the cylinder, bad springs, wrong springs and so on. Light strikes in a semi-auto, though, are by comparison much less common. Ask a gunsmith. Timing issues on revolvers are another problem. Smiths are known for going out of time after so many rounds. Timing is one of the things you should check the buying a used revolver. You should also check forcing cone issues when buying a used revolver. On a DA revolver, you should also check for worn cranes and extractor issues. You should also check for worn cylinder notches on a used revolver. This is actually common on revolvers that get dry fired, excessively. I once had a used Smith 686 that I had to send back to Smith on a recall. They sent it back with a new cylinder due to excessive wear on the original cylinder notches. They said the old cylinder had too much wear to be in spec for warranty.

Timing issues on a semi-auto? Nope. Forcing cone issues on a semi-auto? Nope. Crane issues? Nope. Cylinder fit and wear issues? Nope. The list goes on.

Sorry for the long post, folks, but that's my experience. Again, I LOVE revolvers for many, many reasons. In fact, that's about all I shoot, now, mostly for sentimental reasons, but also for some practical reasons, too. That said, I won't lie to myself or others and perpetuate the myth of revolvers being more reliable, simpler and so on. That has not been my experience. History also supports my view.

[Hatchdog]

I have bought several in the last couple years. Four I bought from a friend at friend prices so those don't count. But, I bought a Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 556 and the Uberti Birdshead Single Action 357 from a large shop in OKC. They buy in bulk so they can sell at fair prices. They even sold ammo at comparatively reasonable prices. Just this year we also picked up a Kimber Micro 9 for Miss Tina and one of the new Ruger Wranglers from a smaller local shop here in S. Central OK. Their prices are more than fair. Their policy is to sell reasonable in hopes of making customers for life rather than try and make a one time sale.

On the flip side, when I was Looking for the Bolt gun, I shopped in the various gun shops up and down the highways in the area, between here and OKC and here and the Texas border while making my various trips to the VA Hospital and trips to my daughter's at the border. I saw prices for used guns higher than the guns cost new, and new guns at 150% markup with the shop owners saying, "Stock is too hard to come by these days." or "You just can't get these nowdays." I just let them keep them. I'm sure they sold them rather quickly. New ones and the used ones.

A lot of those shops were also marking up OLD stock, magazines, slings, gun cases, cleaning kits, everything they had... and making the same excuses.

Have you shot the Wrangler much Marine? Ruger has now come out with 6 and 7.5 inch barrels. Ive thought about one in the 6 inch model but I did a little youtubing on the 4 inch model and the accuracy of those wasnt all that great

Hey Al,

I’ve only had my Wrangler out one time for an ammo test and I felt the accuracy was acceptable for what it is. No rear sight other than the groove on the top of the frame. I need to get it back out and work it some more with the ammo it preferred. I don’t recall the distance I shot these test shots from but probably around 15-20 ft. As far as prices go, I bought this at the Bi-Mart store in Deer Park for $189.00. This store also had a blue one for $199 and the shop across the street was $209. Bi-Mart figured the Burnt Bronze one I paid 189 for was older stock than the blue one. Seems like now I’m seeing them for $229.00.

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[BigAl52]

The myth about revolvers being more reliable and simpler is a holdover bias from the very first days of semi-autos. It was very hard for people to trust semi-autos when they first appeared and for some people, it still is to this day.

The military was the first to recognize the superior reliability of the semi-auto, though, for combat use. Think about it. Even the slightest bit of sand/mud/grit working its way into a revolver will lock up a revolver, instantly and with a revolver and all its exposed openings, more opportunities for fouling. Those first 1911s were loosely constructed to be reliable under combat conditions and avoid fouling. When 1911s wore out, the armorers of the time just saved the useable parts, threw them in a bucket and used them to rebuild other 1911s when they wore out. They were actually able to build complete 1911s from left over parts. Ever try to rebuild a revolver from left over parts? Forget it. It's simply not practical because of all the fitting needed.

Still doubt this? Take down a 1911 after 500 rounds of shooting and you'll been amazed at just how clean the action is. The only residue you typically find is at the breech and the muzzle, but the rest of the action is amazingly clean. Shoot 1000 rounds, instead, and you'll find the same. I've seen this many times with all the 1911s I've owned.

We all know how dirty a revolver gets after 500 rounds of shooting. In some cases, the crud buildup can be bad enough to lock up the cylinder, make extraction difficult and so on to the point of the revolver not being functional. Go a thousand rounds with a revolver without cleaning and you have a nightmare on your hands.

Okay, let's talk about Ruger Marks as another example. I once bought a used Ruger Mark that had been shot for unknown thousands of rounds without being cleaned. I doubt the gun had ever been taken down for a cleaning. (This is not unusual for the original Ruger Marks because owners were afraid to take them down.) I stopped at the range on the way home with the Ruger just to function test it and after 50 rounds, no problem. It shot perfectly, no failures of any kind. Got home and stripped it down and was totally shocked to find that the entire action was filled to the top with dirt and crud. No exaggeration, here. I mean the action was filled with gunk from bottom to the very top. There was so much gunk buildup that the hammer coming back had left a groove in the debris.

Okay, let's talk longevity. No revolver ever made can match the lifespan of a semi-auto. Not even close. Ruger Marks used as rental guns at ranges have been known to go hundreds of thousands of rounds with only a few small replacement parts needed, then go for another hundred thousand rounds.

Still in doubt? Take down a Glock and lay all the pieces on a table. No big deal to do. Anyone can do it. Then take down your favorite Smith DA and lay all the pieces on the table - if you can or dare. It's not something the average Smith owner will do, so take it to a gunsmith and have it done. Then compare the parts on both guns and try telling yourself how simple a revolver is and how few parts. Good luck with that.

And this is all reflected own my sixty years of shooting revolvers and semi-autos. Yes, I have had a few semi-autos that had functioning issues, but most of those issues I could solve on my own. I've had more revolvers with functioning issues, though. In fact quite a few more and a lot of those issues I could not solve on my own, so that meant a trip back to Smith or Ruger or to a local gunsmith.

What kind of issues? Revolvers are notorious for light strikes and those can be caused by too much endplay in the cylinder, bad springs, wrong springs and so on. Light strikes in a semi-auto, though, are by comparison much less common. Ask a gunsmith. Timing issues on revolvers are another problem. Smiths are known for going out of time after so many rounds. Timing is one of the things you should check the buying a used revolver. You should also check forcing cone issues when buying a used revolver. On a DA revolver, you should also check for worn cranes and extractor issues. You should also check for worn cylinder notches on a used revolver. This is actually common on revolvers that get dry fired, excessively. I once had a used Smith 686 that I had to send back to Smith on a recall. They sent it back with a new cylinder due to excessive wear on the original cylinder notches. They said the old cylinder had too much wear to be in spec for warranty.

Timing issues on a semi-auto? Nope. Forcing cone issues on a semi-auto? Nope. Crane issues? Nope. Cylinder fit and wear issues? Nope. The list goes on.

Sorry for the long post, folks, but that's my experience. Again, I LOVE revolvers for many, many reasons. In fact, that's about all I shoot, now, mostly for sentimental reasons, but also for some practical reasons, too. That said, I won't lie to myself or others and perpetuate the myth of revolvers being more reliable, simpler and so on. That has not been my experience. History also supports my view.

Nice write up NCG enjoyed reading that and Im sure Mark will like it also

[BigAl52]

I have bought several in the last couple years. Four I bought from a friend at friend prices so those don't count. But, I bought a Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 556 and the Uberti Birdshead Single Action 357 from a large shop in OKC. They buy in bulk so they can sell at fair prices. They even sold ammo at comparatively reasonable prices. Just this year we also picked up a Kimber Micro 9 for Miss Tina and one of the new Ruger Wranglers from a smaller local shop here in S. Central OK. Their prices are more than fair. Their policy is to sell reasonable in hopes of making customers for life rather than try and make a one time sale.

On the flip side, when I was Looking for the Bolt gun, I shopped in the various gun shops up and down the highways in the area, between here and OKC and here and the Texas border while making my various trips to the VA Hospital and trips to my daughter's at the border. I saw prices for used guns higher than the guns cost new, and new guns at 150% markup with the shop owners saying, "Stock is too hard to come by these days." or "You just can't get these nowdays." I just let them keep them. I'm sure they sold them rather quickly. New ones and the used ones.

A lot of those shops were also marking up OLD stock, magazines, slings, gun cases, cleaning kits, everything they had... and making the same excuses.

Have you shot the Wrangler much Marine? Ruger has now come out with 6 and 7.5 inch barrels. Ive thought about one in the 6 inch model but I did a little youtubing on the 4 inch model and the accuracy of those wasnt all that great

Hey Al,

I’ve only had my Wrangler out one time for an ammo test and I felt the accuracy was acceptable for what it is. No rear sight other than the groove on the top of the frame. I need to get it back out and work it some more with the ammo it preferred. I don’t recall the distance I shot these test shots from but probably around 15-20 ft. As far as prices go, I bought this at the Bi-Mart store in Deer Park for $189.00. This store also had a blue one for $199 and the shop across the street was $209. Bi-Mart figured the Burnt Bronze one I paid 189 for was older stock than the blue one. Seems like now I’m seeing them for $229.00.



808B6042-D4D2-4E8D-B5CB-66F7F677DA2C.jpeg

84EEB7B2-4BF7-467B-8571-AB7849EC22D7.jpeg

79983A06-9D2E-4289-9004-0049A2ED08A3.jpeg

Thanks Hatch I like that color also and Im going to see if the local shop can get one in 6.5 inch barrel.

[markiver54]

Yes NCG. I appreciate you spending the time to go into detail on the revolver vs semi-auto comparison. I have both, but do not shoot nearly as much as you and others on this forum. I guess what really hit home is the take-down comparison. Semi-auto, seconds, revolver, not so. You made very good sense, as expected and it's a real eye opener for me. I now view the whole issue differently. Again; I don't shoot nearly enough to have experienced the things that you have brought to light. I look at it differently now..THANK YOU!

Mark

[North Country Gal]

You're welcome, Mark, Al. That's still my humble outlook on the issue of semi-autos versus revolvers, so there's plenty of other opinions on the subject. For sure, being a revolver fan, myself, I would never talk someone out of shooting revolvers if they like revolvers.

And as I mentioned, there are still plenty of practical advantages to revolvers. For me, having been a handgun hunter back in the day, revolvers are certainly a more practical platform for big bore magnum cartridges, for one. For another, now that I am getting some arthritis in the hands, it is easier to operate a DA revolver than racking a slide on a semi-auto to load. For yet another, no chasing brass with a revolver and so on. I just love shooting revolvers, anyway, so the issue of revolver versus semi-auto for me is no big deal. In fact, all we have left in the safe for semi-autos, now, is one 1911 and it's been collecting dust.

[Mags]

I feel a little different. In a sudden home invasion situation, I will go for our revolver first. In my experience it's more dependable. For what ever reason, limp wrist, bad ammo, whatever, I've had too many instances where our semi-autos jammed on feeding the next round. Rare, but it happens and it would be just my luck it would happen during a home invasion. I've never had our revolvers fail to rotate and fire the next round. Also, I don't have to think about the position of the safety. All our semi-autos have a thumb safety on the left side. Unfortunately some are thumb up and others thumb down. While 1/2 asleep in the dark I don't need to be trying to figure out which semi-auto I have out and what position the safety is in. Split milliseconds lost and that might make the difference.