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Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:42 pm
by Sir Henry
For years I would go to the range every Tuesday to shoot with all the retired guys. We would shoot and then go have lunch together. Sometimes there would be guys that just came to socialize and not shoot.
We had one older gentleman that was 94 when he passed away. He was nearly blind yet he could shoot better than I could. Over the years I talked to him about it and he said he didn’t have to see the target. He had to know where it was. He always shot at 25 yards and always the same lane.
Most times it took him ten minutes to get off a shot because he would adjust his foot placement so his body was always in the exact same spot and the rest was muscle memory. The floor was a rough concrete and he could feel stones even with shoes on.
In two hours he might only take a dozen shots. Today when I shot two three-shot groups I was thinking of him.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:33 pm
by BrokenolMarine
Your friend used "the force."
I bet he was amazing.
My wife used to ask me how I could shoot x's at 50 yards with open sights on my 6" ppc revolver. I know you can't SEE the x-ring at that distance. I know where the x-ring is... I'd tell her. I aim at a point I CAN see and adjust my 50 yard sights so my rounds HIT the x-ring using that aiming point if I do my job with grip, trigger control, sight picture. You don't have to see the target, just know where to aim.
Same thing worked with iron sights on rifles at 600 yards. Know where to hold on a known aiming point. I loved the 600 yard line.
I agree, the shooting was always good for me. Socializing with other shooters, much better.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:02 pm
by dave77
Jerry Miculek must have been using the force when he made this shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw&t=2s
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:40 pm
by BigAl52
Jerry is amazing and Ive watched that video in the past. Along with some of the others he has made.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:49 am
by Kissmybrass
2nd shot! Wow!
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:01 am
by GFK
Muscle memory, that is what we were told when qualifying to carry a handgun. Over a two week period, we had to shoot 500 rounds. The idea was for our body to become conditioned to drawing and pointing the firearm the same way, without thinking about it. I have not drawn in awhile. But when I pick up a revolver, it seems like it was yesterday that I had just shot it.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:40 am
by GunnyGene
BrokenolMarine wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:33 pm
Your friend used "the force."
I bet he was amazing.
My wife used to ask me how I could shoot x's at 50 yards with open sights on my 6" ppc revolver. I know you can't SEE the x-ring at that distance. I know where the x-ring is... I'd tell her. I aim at a point I CAN see and adjust my 50 yard sights so my rounds HIT the x-ring using that aiming point if I do my job with grip, trigger control, sight picture. You don't have to see the target, just know where to aim.
Same thing worked with iron sights on rifles at 600 yards. Know where to hold on a known aiming point. I loved the 600 yard line.
I agree, the shooting was always good for me. Socializing with other shooters, much better.
I think that a great many people - especially the younger generations - have been spoiled by technology. Red dots, lasers, etc. By that I mean they tend expect that modern weapons tech will somehow compensate for a lack of fundamental shooting skills. The industry panders to this also, and you can see it in the marketing. Back when, it was considered ridiculous to use a scope for a 100yd or 200yd shot with a rifle.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:01 am
by BrokenolMarine
GunnyGene wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:40 am
BrokenolMarine wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:33 pm
Your friend used "the force."
I bet he was amazing.
My wife used to ask me how I could shoot x's at 50 yards with open sights on my 6" ppc revolver. I know you can't SEE the x-ring at that distance. I know where the x-ring is... I'd tell her. I aim at a point I CAN see and adjust my 50 yard sights so my rounds HIT the x-ring using that aiming point if I do my job with grip, trigger control, sight picture. You don't have to see the target, just know where to aim.
Same thing worked with iron sights on rifles at 600 yards. Know where to hold on a known aiming point. I loved the 600 yard line.
I agree, the shooting was always good for me. Socializing with other shooters, much better.
I think that a great many people - especially the younger generations - have been spoiled by technology. Red dots, lasers, etc. By that I mean they tend expect that modern weapons tech will somehow compensate for a lack of fundamental shooting skills. The industry panders to this also, and you can see it in the marketing. Back when, it was considered ridiculous to use a scope for a 100yd or 200yd shot with a rifle.
On a good day, with an off the rack M16 I had sighted in, it was easy to put a shot in the center of the target at 500 yards using open sights, wait for the target to come back up with the spotter in the center, and slowly, one round at a time, put nine more shots into that spotter. The guys pulling my target loved me. (Well, except when I got lucky a couple times and shot the peg out of the spotter.
Any Marine who ever pulled butts during a hot summer range knows how scarce good pegs become.
)
I found it easy, but I listened to the coaches. I didn't move my body position while I waited for my target to be marked. My contact with the ground in the prone position never changed. I controlled my breathing, and my trigger break was always gentle, like an eyedropper. The shots were a surprise... Money in the bank. Only those five offhand shots ever worried me, practice... Finally figured those out.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:14 am
by GunnyGene
BrokenolMarine wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:01 am
GunnyGene wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:40 am
BrokenolMarine wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:33 pm
Your friend used "the force."
I bet he was amazing.
My wife used to ask me how I could shoot x's at 50 yards with open sights on my 6" ppc revolver. I know you can't SEE the x-ring at that distance. I know where the x-ring is... I'd tell her. I aim at a point I CAN see and adjust my 50 yard sights so my rounds HIT the x-ring using that aiming point if I do my job with grip, trigger control, sight picture. You don't have to see the target, just know where to aim.
Same thing worked with iron sights on rifles at 600 yards. Know where to hold on a known aiming point. I loved the 600 yard line.
I agree, the shooting was always good for me. Socializing with other shooters, much better.
I think that a great many people - especially the younger generations - have been spoiled by technology. Red dots, lasers, etc. By that I mean they tend expect that modern weapons tech will somehow compensate for a lack of fundamental shooting skills. The industry panders to this also, and you can see it in the marketing. Back when, it was considered ridiculous to use a scope for a 100yd or 200yd shot with a rifle.
On a good day, with an off the rack M16 I had sighted in, it was easy to put a shot in the center of the target at 500 yards using open sights, wait for the target to come back up with the spotter in the center, and slowly, one round at a time, put nine more shots into that spotter. The guys pulling my target loved me. (Well, except when I got lucky a couple times and shot the peg out of the spotter.
Any Marine who ever pulled butts during a hot summer range knows how scarce good pegs become.
)
I found it easy, but I listened to the coaches. I didn't move my body position while I waited for my target to be marked. My contact with the ground in the prone position never changed. I controlled my breathing, and my trigger break was always gentle, like an eyedropper. The shots were a surprise... Money in the bank. Only those five offhand shots ever worried me, practice... Finally figured those out.
Bone support. Trigger break between heart beats. Etc. There's a reason all Marines are trigger pullers.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:15 am
by JEBar
your friend had some incredible skills .... I'm still working on trying to hit targets I can see ....
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:22 am
by North Country Gal
Your friend is a splendid example of using repetition - doing every thing the same, right down to foot placement, shot after shot. And speaking of Miculek, the first thing he teaches is that any fancy hold or technique that you use that you cannot repeat, precisely, shot after shot, will cost you in terms of performance. Keep it simple and repeatable and avoid holds that depend on pressure points, because it is not possible to maintain that same pressure, shot after shot, over a wide range of conditions. If you want to practice this principle, buy a spring piston airgun. You cannot shoot a springer accurately without perfect consistency of hold and form.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:10 pm
by Sir Henry
That was an incredible shot. It took about two seconds for the bullet to travel that far.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:16 pm
by Sir Henry
GFK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:01 am
Muscle memory, that is what we were told when qualifying to carry a handgun. Over a two week period, we had to shoot 500 rounds. The idea was for our body to become conditioned to drawing and pointing the firearm the same way, without thinking about it. I have not drawn in awhile. But when I pick up a revolver, it seems like it was yesterday that I had just shot it.
I practice slow drawing a pistol and shouldering a rifle with my eyes closed. When I open them my eyes should be perfectly aligned with the sights even thought I’m not on target. If not I’m not holding them in a natural way. Tx Gn Rnnr taught me that.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:19 pm
by Sir Henry
JEBar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:15 am
your friend had some incredible skills .... I'm still working on trying to hit targets I can see ....
I’ve found it easier to shoot first then draw a circle around it.
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:09 pm
by JEBar
Sir Henry wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:19 pm
I’ve found it easier to shoot first then draw a circle around it.
nice .... haven't considered doing that ....
Re: Hitting a target when you can’t see it.
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:58 pm
by RanchRoper
Cool story. Hope I am still around to shoot when I’m 94. Or supply some relaxing harp music if I’m not.
