Don't be embarrassed to ask!

[markiver54]

I have been a firearms enthusiast mostly all of my life. I am in no way an expert on all aspects of firearms. Not even the ones that I own. Luckily, we are fortunate to have members here that are very knowledgable, such as NCG and others.
I started this thread, not only for myself, but for others who might have a question, but are embarrassed to ask...simply because they do not know, but feel that they should know, to fit in on a firearms forum.
Don't be embarrassed, or hesitate to ask the most basic of questions.....I, personally, will start;
What is the main outstanding difference between the .22 caliber and 223. I do believe they measure the same, but probably have different characteristics, such as distance accuracy...

[GunnyGene]

I have been a firearms enthusiast mostly all of my life. I am in no way an expert on all aspects of firearms. Not even the ones that I own. Luckily, we are fortunate to have members here that are very knowledgable, such as NCG and others.
I started this thread, not only for myself, but for others who might have a question, but are embarrassed to ask...simply because they do not know, but feel that they should know, to fit in on a firearms forum.
Don't be embarrassed, or hesitate to ask the most basic of questions.....I, personally, will start;
What is the main outstanding difference between the .22 caliber and 223. I do believe they measure the same, but probably have different characteristics, such as distance accuracy...

If you're just talking about the projectile my opinion is the Ballistic Coefficients. .223 (and 5.56) G1 BC is approx double to triple that of the .22lr or wmr. That (BC) will vary depending on the specific bullet. .22 is generally around .110, while .223 is up around .295 or higher.

[markiver54]

Thank you Gunny...starting to understand. Was wondering, because I was looking at .22 ammo online from one of the ammo suppliers and the spec for .22LR was 223. Diam.
I realize that the 22LR is straight walled ammo, and the .223 is bottle neck...hence more powder I guess. Guessing that contributes to distance and accuracy.

[GunnyGene]

Thank you Gunny...starting to understand. Was wondering, because I was looking at .22 ammo online from one of the ammo suppliers and the spec for .22LR was 223. Diam.
I realize that the 22LR is straight walled ammo, and the .223 is bottle neck...hence more powder I guess. Guessing that contributes to distance and accuracy.

Take a look at the Hornady specs for .223/5.56 and compare that to .22lr or wmr. You'll notice there is a lot of BC difference even between bullets of the same caliber. This is because of the different weights and aerodynamics of the specific projectiles. And of course the cartridge powder load of the .223 family gives a much higher MV. These and other differences determine the design of the barrel (twist, etc.) to get the most out of the projectile in terms of accuracy, precision, effective range, trajectory, and so on. BTW, an M-16 has an effective range of 500yds+.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/

[markiver54]

Thank you very much Gunny! You have shed much light on this for me.
Part of why I asked, is that I have some interest in building an AR 15. I have the mil spec reciever that was given to me by a friend, and think, I want to go 223.
Then again, I do have a lot of 7.62 x 39 ammo for the SKS that I own. Hand me down from deceased BIL.

[GunnyGene]

Thank you very much Gunny! You have shed much light on this for me.
Part of why I asked, is that I have some interest in building an AR 15. I have the mil spec reciever that was given to me by a friend, and think, I want to go 223.
Then again, I do have a lot of 7.62 x 39 ammo for the SKS that I own. Hand me down from deceased BIL.

You might enjoy the Sniper101 series of videos. Goes into considerable depth on ballistics, etc. His focus is on extreme long range but quite a lot of the info he presents applies to any rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0H ... vDCIcEPxUn

[runnin n gunnin]

Hey markiver54, that's what I like about the forum and folks like you, Ranch roper, Gunny, Vaquero, 40 shooter, Rifletom, Big Al, Colefisher, Shakey Jake, JEbar, Mistered, BrokenOMarine, and many more.

These are quality, stand up folks that check their ego at the door and step up to share knowledge, and learn as well.

That is what makes this forum what it is. No egos or know it all's, just sharing information. Huh, maybe a lesson the younger generation could learn from.

[Rifletom]

r-n-g, if we ever hook up, I'm gonna buy you a beer and a burger! That was pretty spot on. I liked that post.

[clovishound]

.223/5.56 have a different ballistic coefficient, which will affect how much speed is lost in a given distance. They also have a muzzle velocity almost three times that of .22lr. Both of these were touched on in previous posts. As well, they normally have heavier bullets than .22lr.

Think about the muzzle velocity for a moment. CCI mini mags have a 36 grain bullet and a MV of 1260 fps. American Eagle .223 has a 55 grain bullet and a muzzle velocity of 3240 fps. We get all excited about .357 magnum having 1240 fps vs 899 fps from the same weight bullet in .38 spcl.

[Ozarkwoodswalker]

Question #2

I read that you shouldn't shoot 5.56 in a .223 but you can safely shoot .223 in a 5.56 .. is that a pressure difference thing? I have a bull barrel .223. Can you shoot 5.56 in that? Or is it a chamber/head space thing or ???
And, i suppose i meant to ask could you do it safely, as of course, a person can try nearly anything... but, if its a mistake, you will crash and burn.... not interested in mad science experiments....

[GunnyGene]

Question #2

I read that you shouldn't shoot 5.56 in a .223 but you can safely shoot .223 in a 5.56 .. is that a pressure difference thing? I have a bull barrel .223. Can you shoot 5.56 in that? Or is it a chamber/head space thing or ???
And, i suppose i meant to ask could you do it safely, as of course, a person can try nearly anything... but, if its a mistake, you will crash and burn.... not interested in mad science experiments....

Not advisable to shoot 5.56 in .223 spec. chamber, however modern AR-15 barrels are chambered to 5.56 spec, so unless you have an early .223 only barrel, you will be fine shooting 5.56 or .223 in your AR-15. It should be stamped 5.56/.223. If it is only stamped .223 don't shoot 5.56 in it. There is a huge variety of ammo to fit every desire from Match to medium game, and personal defense. You can go broke trying them all out to see which one(s) your rifle likes (assuming you can find anything other than 62gr Nato FMJ that is).

https://tacticalgunreview.com/223-vs-5- ... n-english/

Also see:
https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le- ... ammunition

[Ozarkwoodswalker]

Its not an ar... its a single shot new englsnd firearms bull barrel

[GunnyGene]

Its not an ar... its a single shot new englsnd firearms bull barrel

The same cautions apply regarding the chamber throat length as stated in the Hornady link. The bull barrel may be able to withstand the increased pressure, but you still run the risk of blowing out the primer. Wouldn't hurt to measure it.

[markiver54]

Its not an ar... its a single shot new englsnd firearms bull barrel

The same cautions apply regarding the chamber throat length as stated in the Hornady link. The bull barrel may be able to withstand the increased pressure, but you still run the risk of blowing out the primer. Wouldn't hurt to measure it.

Interesting!...and thanks for the links Gunny!

[Shakey Jake]

Here's a script from Hornady:

Differences between the two are small but can have a large impact on performance, safety and weapon function.

The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loaded to approximately 55,000 psi.

The second and most important difference between the two is the fact that a 5.56 NATO chamber has a .125” longer throat. This allows approximately one more grain of powder to be loaded into a 5.56 NATO cartridge; this is what gives it higher performance than its 223 Remington cousin.

The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. This is NOT safe and will cause primers to back out, or worse, cause harm to the operator, the rifle, or both.

The reverse of this is firing a 223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle. Due to the throat difference between the two chambers a 223 Rem cartridge may not work optimally in a 5.56 NATO chambered weapon. The cause of this is the lack of pressure built by a 223 Rem cartridge fired from a 5.56 NATO chamber. The 223’s 55,000 psi will not be attained and therefore velocity and performance are hurt. Problems start occurring when this combination is fired out of a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle with a 14.5” (or shorter) barrel. The lower powder charge of the 223 round coupled with the pressure drop that occurs when it is fired in a the 5.56 NATO chamber will cause the rifle to cycle improperly. NATO chambered rifles with barrels longer than 14.5” should function properly when firing 223 Rem ammunition.

Jake

[North Country Gal]

On the 5.56 in a 223, you'll need to take it on a case by case basis with the brand and model of gun as to whether it's safe to use 5.56 in a 223 gun. For instance, CZ rifles are built to European pressure standards (CIP) and those standards are higher in the 223 than our US SAAMI standards for 223. In other words, CZ builds their 223 rifles to 5.56 pressure standards, thus CZ advertises that it is safe to shoot 5.56 in their 223 rifles. When in doubt, however, I'm with Gunny Gene and just playing it safe.

As for the 22 LR, you have to remember that it is essentially a living fossil as cartridges go. It has history dating back to the black powder days for its development, whereas the 223 is a totally modern cartridge. About the only thing the two have in common is bullet diameter.

Let's face it, the current rimfires we love to shoot really are a dated design. The 22 LR has hung on so long simply by virtue of its popularity. If you compare the 22 magnum with the venerable 22 Hornet, you can see the difference. Both reach similar velocities, but the 22 mag won't match up to the Hornet for accuracy. Usually not even close. Then, too, even the Hornet is considered a somewhat dated centerfire 22. The reason is that BC, as Gunny explained.

Of course, it's all relative. The BC of the typical pellet I shoot in my airguns has only a tiny fraction of the BC of the lowly 22 LR bullet. That BC, once again, explains why I need a day of perfect shooting conditions to keep up with our 22 LR rifles for accuracy at 50 yards.

[RanchRoper]

Lots of knowledge here for sure. But I am actually not one of the scholars. I am a point and shoot 1 caliber guy. 2 I guess now with the black powder.

But there are lots of folks here who can problem solve if you need help.

[markiver54]

Love it! Lots of valuable info being shared here.

[Cofisher]

I’ve read that the 223 Wylde barrel was designed to deal with this issue. Anybody have hands on experience? I was thinking of a build using it.

[BigAl52]

Thanks for the complement RnG and Im still learning to. But one of the reasons I have stuck here is because one can post just like you did Mark and just like we all do without being crucified by a bunch of know it alls that want to call you stupid. Theres also a lot of great people here which anyone who has been here for a while would know simply from the kind of forum its become. Fish I have a Barnes Precision Machine built in North Carolina JeBar country and it has a Wylde barrel on it. Never shot any 556 in it but it sure does do a fine job with 223. Its very accurate