NASCAR 2020

[Grunt67]

Experts, are like polls, they are usually skewed in one direction
or another.
I'll stick with Randy's version. Anyone else can choose to suit their needs. 1st. Amendment, free speech.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Cowboy Gun Fan]

To add a little extra, Virginia did not get invaded because it had slaves. It got invaded because it seceded from the Union. Why did Virginia secede? Because Lincoln called out for 75,000 Troops to invade the South. Virginia did not want conflict and did not have anything against it's neighbors to the South or even to it's neighbors to the North (Maryland had 90,000 slaves in the 1860 census). The Union, which Virginia was still in at the time, wanted 1000's of soldiers from each state and about a little over 3,000 from Virginia. Therefore Virginia seceded. Not long after Lincoln invaded in the First Battle of Bull Run. Most of the soldiers who met them on Virginia's own soil did not own or even wanted slaves.

[CT_Shooter]

Why did Virginia secede?

At the Richmond convention in February 1861, Georgian Henry Lewis Benning, who would later go on to join the Confederate army as an officer, delivered a speech in which he gave his reasoning for the urging of secession from the Union, appealing to ethnic prejudices and pro-slavery sentiments to present his case, saying that were the slave states to remain in the Union, their slaves would ultimately end up being freed by the anti-slavery Republican Party. He stated that he would rather be stricken with illness and starvation than to see African-Americans liberated from slavery and be given equality as citizens:

What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery. ... If things are allowed to go on as they are, it is certain that slavery is to be abolished. By the time the north shall have attained the power, the black race will be in a large majority, and then we will have black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that? It is not a supposable case ... war will break out everywhere like hidden fire from the earth, and it is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back. ... we will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. That is the fate which abolition will bring upon the white race. ... We will be completely exterminated, and the land will be left in the possession of the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become another Africa ... Suppose they elevated Charles Sumner to the presidency? Suppose they elevated Fred Douglass, your escaped slave, to the presidency? What would be your position in such an event? I say give me pestilence and famine sooner than that.

— Henry Lewis Benning, speech to the Virginia Convention, February 18, 1861.

[Cowboy Gun Fan]

CT_Shooter,

What you write is true. Benning did state that. But show me the proof that it was his speech that changed the hearts of those who voted to secede.

Here is the real, stronger reason:

Lincoln called out for Troops on April 15th and Virginia seceded on April, 17th, just 2 days later. If they did not secede, they would been obligated to send troops in to help invade the lower South. Why in the world, would Virginia want to do that? It had no reason and made no sense. There was also the reality of Coercion from the Union government, which put even more weight on the scale.

Also, some may say, why not stay neutral. Not really an option as to where Virginia was located. It was forced to get involved whether they liked it or not.

[CT_Shooter]

...show me the proof that it was his speech that changed the hearts of those who voted to secede.

Proof isn't possible, just compelling records...

...the secession convention voted on April 17, provisionally, to secede, on the condition of ratification by a statewide referendum. That same day, the convention adopted an ordinance of secession, in which it stated the immediate cause of Virginia's declaring of secession, "the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States".

In 1894, Virginian and former Confederate soldier John S. Mosby, reflecting back on his role in the war, stated in a letter to friend that "I've always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about. I've never heard of any other cause of quarrel than slavery."

[Cowboy Gun Fan]

Have to say that I'm not really crazy about Wikipedia, but that said, in the first paragraph in the link states:

--"Virginia held a state convention to deal with the secession crisis, and voted against secession on April 4, 1861. Opinion shifted after April 15, when U.S. President Abraham Lincoln called for troops from all states still in the Union to put down the rebellion, following the capture of Fort Sumter, and the Virginia convention voted to declare secession from the Union."--

This is more in line of what I've been saying.

But let's just put this on the back table for now. But again, the main reason for the discussion on this thread is the Confederate Flag. When Lincoln chose to invade Virginia, a big mistake in my opinion, brave soldiers met them to defend their homeland. Many died fighting and the Flag is in honor of them as well as Southern Pride in the South related to it.

Also want to say that if I were around back then, I would have been strongly against slavery. Just like I'm strongly against some things today. I would have wanted slavery to stop, but not the way Lincoln chose. The destruction and loss of lives in the whole war was extreme to say it lightly.

[Grunt67]

Just saw on the local ( Nashville ), news that the FBI investigation into the Bubba Wallace incident is finished. They said the rope
was a garage door pull down rope, fashioned into a noose, and had been there for quite a while, possibly last year, before Bubba Wallace used the garage. Therefore it wasn't aimed at him.
That's the gist of it, you'll probably see it on your local or national news in depth.

[JEBar]

NASCAR's statement :

“The FBI has completed its investigation at Talladega Superspeedway and determined that Bubba Wallace was not the target of a hate crime. The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall. This was obviously well before the 43 team’s arrival and garage assignment. We appreciate the FBI’s quick and thorough investigation and are thankful to learn that this was not an intentional, racist act against Bubba. We remain steadfast in our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all who love racing.”

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2020/ ... rspeedway/

[Vaquero]

Well if that is truly the jest of it, then he and the team should be reprimanded for causing the stink.
But we all know that'll never happen.
Don't tell me that they weren't intelligent enough to know the damn difference.


RP

[markiver54]

Well if that is truly the jest of it, then he and the team should be reprimanded for causing the stink.
But we all know that'll never happen.
Don't tell me that they weren't intelligent enough to know the damn difference.


RP

Really...a garage door rope??...funny how these things seem to fall into place at someone's selected timing.

[Rifletom]

Guys, can we take a breath here and step back? This is starting to get a bit heated. I understand the points being made here. Please, let’s let this cool down. I’m not speaking as a DM, but, as friends here. Thanks for your understanding.

[Rifletom]

Thanks Randy. Right now, that means a lot. Believe me.

[Rifletom]

Thanks also Al. Just wanted things to cool down some. This is appreciated.

[Grunt67]

Sounds good to me. Pocono up next, on that weird shaped track.

[Rifletom]

Sounds good to me. Pocono up next, on that weird shaped track.

Yep. A big "D" sort of. But, gadzooks, its fast.

[GeoBoy]

Never been a fan of the Pocono race, kind of boring.

[Cowboy Gun Fan]

Pocono sounds good to me, although I'm standing strong in my Boycott mode. If it's on Antenna TV, I'll be watching it, otherwise I'm out. I have dis-connected everything Nascar.

Then, this morning don't I learn something else new about Nascar. I first thought it was a joke, but I researched it online and it seems to be true. Which only re-affirms my Boycott. Although I know I can't say anything about it here.

Rifletom, maybe the noose talk got a little heated, but I think the talk we had about the Confederate history went pretty civil and respectful. I was pretty impressed by it.

[Vaquero]

Well with cookie cutter cars what would you expect.
Most races these days are boring, and those stages are there so they have a chance to pass.
I'm done with it, used to love it, but no longer.

Guess I'll just stay out of here also, and let y'all have at it.
Bye!

RP

[JEBar]

Rifletom, maybe the noose talk got a little heated, but I think the talk we had about the Confederate history went pretty civil and respectful. I was pretty impressed by it.

I agree .... hence the reason I stayed out of it .... civil and respectful conversations are one of the hallmarks of this forum ....

[Vaquero]

Yep, I'm done.

NASCAR has removed guidelines that team members must stand for the national anthem, opening the way for peaceful protests during pre-race ceremonies.

NASCAR eliminated the guidelines before last weekend’s race at Atlanta Motor Speedway.

In other words, kneeling is now OK. Check out what Bubba stated about it as well:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nascar-allo...193527593.html

RP