NEW Savage Mark II FV Heavy Barrel

[henry22]

Just some advice from anyone who owns any bolt action 22 really. I'm about to pull the plug on one of these, cheaper to shoot than 22 mag, and lots of fun an accurate enough I think for 50 yard plinking.

One question, when I try different 22LR ammo, if I buy 3-4 different boxes of ammo, does it matter how I test each batch?

With a clean barrel, should I run copper jacketed from the rifle FIRST, then boresnake the barrel, then lead bullets next, boresnake, repeat etc?

Does it matter what you run through the bore first in order to condition it?

[North Country Gal]

Excellent post and questions.

There are some that will be very religious about cleaning between brands and taking meticulous notes and then there will be some like me who take a much more casual approach arrive at conclusions after a lot of shooting. Both work.

I tend to keep it simple and casual. First, I draw no conclusions shooting from a clean bore. I allow for some fouling before I get serious about checking accuracy potential. Second, I don''t clean before switching loads, but I do allow for 3 or 4 shots for the barrel to season to the new load and proceed from there. Works for me. When I start to see consistency with the new load, then I get serious about accuracy conclusions. Sometimes, it takes as little as three shots with the new load, sometimes more. Don't be surprised if you get a POI shift when you go to a different load, by the way. It's very common. It's why I don't get too serious about adjusting sights till I start to see some consistency with a given load.

Also, and the point of my last post on that 223 we bought, don't get in a hurry with a new gun to jump to conclusions as to how it shoots. I've had some guns that would shoot at max potential, right out of the box, first session. I've had others that slowly, but surely, started to tighten up groups with each succeeding session. I've even had guns that changed their ammo preference the more I shot them. Don't forget to factor in all the other variables when drawing conclusions about accuracy, too. We all have good days and some not so good days and shooting conditions vary, widely. Then, too, be prepared for some surprises. I've had some cheaper loads do just as well as the high price stuff in certain guns. Spending more on ammo is no guarantee it will shoot better in your gun.

Lastly, be reasonable about accuracy expectations. Most of us are not shooting match guns, nor are we competing. For darn sure, there's more to shooting any specific gun that how small a group it will shoot, too. Keep it fun, get to know your rifle and, in time, it will tell you what it likes to shoot for ammo. Did I mention keep it fun? .

[Shakey Jake]

My .22 WMR rifle does good with Fiocchi ammo but in the Ruger 10-22 LR does better with Federal (710) 40 gr copper plated ammo. Like you I tried a few different brands: CCI, Aguila, and Winchester. I didn't switch ammo on the same range shoot though. You ask some very good questions.

[henry22]

Well thanks guys. I was just curious about 22LR. I only shoot the 40 grain maxi-mag through the H001M, so I don't really need any other comparisons. I've tried several others, and the Winchester Super X seems to do really well for some reason, as does the CCI stuff.

I had a game changer on the weekend. A guy let me shoot a few rounds through his Marlin 60. I HATED the springy feeling in the trigger, so no semi-autos for me. But he let me fiddle with his elevation, because it was shooting high about an inch. A few clicks, and few shots later, and we were hitting 1" potatoes and smaller from 50 yards. I was impressed, and so much cheaper!

It all comes down to ammo cost for me. I'm getting very comfortable with my H001M, and it's so much fun to shoot, but I can't make 2 range trips on a weekend and go through 250-300 rounds, it costs too much, so I'll need a 22LR to supplement.

I agree NCG, it's all about fun. I just don't want a plinker where the POI is all over the place. I don't want to spend another $600 on a CZ either, as fantastic as they are - I cant' afford another one.

I'd love to find a 22LR bolt action that loves cheap ammo. The guy at the range with the Marlin 60 was shooting Blazer bulk ammo, and it was accurate enough to whack little potatoes, and I thought, "I need a 22LR bolt action now".

It's a difficult situation, the 22 mag is so immediate, and reports with authority, which is so much fun, the 22LR is fun as well, just not as fun. NCG, we had the cleaning discussion months back, and every time I come home from the range, I'm cleaning my Henry, usually with Ballistol, a nylon brush on an Otis cable pull through, with patches at the end. I have found though, that the more rounds I put through it at the range, - past 100 to 150, it stays really accurate. And every-time I return to the range, I have to re-zero. — Is that a result of a really clean barrel, or is it having a cold barrel?

Now I'm thinking, maybe I shouldn't clean it after shooting session, even though I'm putting at least 150 rounds through it each trip. I thought that any residue and carbon in the barrel is corrosive over time, that it's better to clean a little more often, rather than a scub-fest in one sitting.

Personally, I'd rather just pound rounds through it until I hit 500-600, or until it's so fouled I lose accuracy. I've never let that many rounds go through it before cleaning it.

[tractortad]

You may also want to check out a Ruger American Rimfire. We have one with a a low-end Simmons scope on it that is a pretty good shooter - probably good enough for those potatoes at 50 yds...

Ruger All-American Rimfire 22LR.JPG (254.72 KiB) Viewed 5279 times

[PT7]

Unfortunately at times, our shooting "guide" is "….so much cheaper!" You have echoed my same experience when I had my Henry H001M. I had the magnum rimfire for just under one year, and put only 512 rounds down range...not that many rounds, which was due mainly to spendy magnum ammo. And you've exactly described the "fun level" difference between shooting a .22 magnum versus a .22LR....I found it to be the same. The .22 magnum was very much fun to shoot.

So now I only shoot .22LR with my Henry Small Game Carbine (H001TLP). But the SGC is so very accurate, I'm not missing shooting the magnum as much nowadays.

And very important, I totally agree when you agreed with NCG:

I agree NCG, it's all about fun.

PT7

….so much cheaper!

It all comes down to ammo cost for me. I'm getting very comfortable with my H001M, and it's so much fun to shoot, but I can't make 2 range trips on a weekend and go through 250-300 rounds, it costs too much, so I'll need a 22LR to supplement.

I agree NCG, it's all about fun. I just don't want a plinker where the POI is all over the place. I don't want to spend another $600 on a CZ either, as fantastic as they are - I cant' afford another one.

I'd love to find a 22LR bolt action that loves cheap ammo. The guy at the range with the Marlin 60 was shooting Blazer bulk ammo, and it was accurate enough to whack little potatoes, and I thought, "I need a 22LR bolt action now".

It's a difficult situation, the 22 mag is so immediate, and reports with authority, which is so much fun, the 22LR is fun as well, just not as fun.

[henry22]

Shoot PT7, now you've got me thinking about buying another Henry in 22LR. I've debated it. I really love them. I even love the way mine smells. A hint of primer residue and G96, MMMMM.

[North Country Gal]

- I'd love to find a 22LR bolt action that loves cheap ammo. The guy at the range with the Marlin 60 was shooting Blazer bulk ammo, and it was accurate enough to whack little potatoes, and I thought, "I need a 22LR bolt action now".

It's a difficult situation, the 22 mag is so immediate, and reports with authority, which is so much fun, the 22LR is fun as well, just not as fun. NCG, we had the cleaning discussion months back, and every time I come home from the range, I'm cleaning my Henry, usually with Ballistol, a nylon brush on an Otis cable pull through, with patches at the end. I have found though, that the more rounds I put through it at the range, - past 100 to 150, it stays really accurate. And every-time I return to the range, I have to re-zero. — Is that a result of a really clean barrel, or is it having a cold barrel?

Now I'm thinking, maybe I shouldn't clean it after shooting session, even though I'm putting at least 150 rounds through it each trip. I thought that any residue and carbon in the barrel is corrosive over time, that it's better to clean a little more often, rather than a scub-fest in one sitting.

Personally, I'd rather just pound rounds through it until I hit 500-600, or until it's so fouled I lose accuracy. I've never let that many rounds go through it before cleaning it.

To clean or not clean the bore on a rimfire is really a personal decision. Having to re-zero in your case is most likely a matter of starting over, again, with a clean bore, yes, but a warm barrel can also change POI a bit, though rimfires rarely have a hot barrel/cold barrel issue unless you are going Rambo, shooting a semi-auto with large capacity magazines, as fast as you can empty the mag. The hot barrel issue is mostly a centerfire issue.

On most rimfires, it will take a huge number of rounds to see a falloff, if any, in accuracy. This is usually a matter of leading. Some guns may have a tendency to lead, though, so on those guns, this can be an issue. High round counts tend to be more an issue as to gun functioning. Semi autos, in particular, need cleaning on a regular basis because they can get dirty enough to cause feeding and extraction issues. The Marlin Model 60, in fact, is known for this because it's not an especially easy action to take apart and clean. A gunsmith friend of mine made a pretty good profit by buying Marlin 60s from owners who thought their guns were broken and in need of repair when, in fact, they just needed a proper cleaning. He'd clean them up, then put them out on the rack and re-sell them. By the way, the Model 60 is quite accurate. Have seen some that were great shooters.

I rarely clean the bore after every session with our rimfires. Just haven't seen the need. In all my years I have never ruined or lost a single gun bore though rust or corrosion. I do tend to clean some types of guns more frequently than others, though. My revolvers, for instance get a good cleaning after every session for the sake proper function.

Finding a bolt action 22 LR that loves cheap ammo is very easy and very cheap to do. Just about any of the old used single shot 22 from Winchester, Remington, Mossberg, Savage, Marlin and so on can do this for you. Have/had examples of all of these and they are right there with a CZ. These can often be had for a song. Going single shot will keep ammo consumption down, too.

[henry22]

Coolio NCG. I was actually looking at a few used 22LR's at my gunsmith's shop. A few were single shots, but the issue was how to mount a scope on top of them. Some didn't look scope friendly. I may go visit him this week to take a look at what he has.

So, as for cleaning both the CZ and the Henry, I'll just wait until I've put 800-1000 rounds or so through each.

If I re-zero the Henry with a clean bore, and my POI is off since the last range trip, should I just keep shooting 10-15 rounds until the barrel is a bit fouled, then re-zero the scope?

That still throws me off - shooting last weekend, hitting bullseye's, and knowing that when I return to the range this weekend, I'll have to re-zero again because I've boresnaked the Henry.

If I put 100 rounds through the Henry this weekend, and I'm bang on bullseye, and I put it away without cleaning it, will the POI change that much the next range trip?

[North Country Gal]

Don't get too obsessed with the need to make sight adjustments as needed, one session to the next. It's a perfectly normal part of the shooting game. Doing a sight check and making adjustments before any shooting for score is routine practice in competition matches. Competition shooters know very well how little it takes to change a POI, from one day to the next. They always do a sight check and adjust as needed before competition starts. In fact, time is typically given before the match starts for just this purpose. Being able to tweak the sights on a gun as needed, when ever needed, is a skill every serious shooter needs to develop. It's an ongoing thing, never a final thing.

I remember, vividly , as an eighth-grader in junior rifle club. I was in such a hurry to start shooting that I thought I could bypass the sight check that was part of the routine before shooting for score. After all, the sights were set, perfectly, the week, before. Just so happened that I shot the perfect target, that night, with all shots in the same small hole. Because I hadn't done my sight check, though, my windage was off by only one click. It pushed one shot out of the 10 ring into the 9. I would have been the first junior ever, to shoot a perfect 50 if I had followed my training protocol the letter.

My instructor chewed me out till my ears turned red, all the more so because I was his star student. I will never forget that incident. ( He later invited me to try out for the college team when I was of age.)

[henry22]

How cool. So, you are in fact real "firearms advisor"? As in, that's what your job is? Is it related to military or law enforcement?

I was just curious about your title, you don't have to answer anything personal obviously. I just think it's cool that you know so much. That's one thing about shooting that I'm really starting to love, there is no "perfect" even for the best shooters. It's temporary, and only as good as you are with that rifle, that ammo, on that particular day. When you're on, you're ON, and when you're not, well..

So what is the normal process if my POI is off - as I expect it to be? Shoot a group of five, wait a few minutes, then shoot another five, then adjust my windage and elevation?

[BigAl52]

My hats off to people that can shoot 22 or another gun for that matter and put round after round in the same hole or close to it on paper. But im just gonna throw this out. Im like PT I love my SGC and Ive never shot it on paper to even see what it will do. But it shoots clay pigeon moa all day at 50 yards with several different ammos and the fun factor for me is a 10 out of a 10. Just sayin

[PT7]

FUN = 10/10 all day!
Your sayin about your playin is a BULLSEYE.

My hats off to people that can shoot 22 or another gun for that matter and put round after round in the same hole or close to it on paper. But im just gonna throw this out. Im like PT I love my SGC and Ive never shot it on paper to even see what it will do. But it shoots clay pigeon moa all day at 50 yards with several different ammos and the fun factor for me is a 10 out of a 10. Just sayin

[North Country Gal]

How cool. So, you are in fact real "firearms advisor"? As in, that's what your job is? Is it related to military or law enforcement?

I was just curious about your title, you don't have to answer anything personal obviously. I just think it's cool that you know so much. That's one thing about shooting that I'm really starting to love, there is no "perfect" even for the best shooters. It's temporary, and only as good as you are with that rifle, that ammo, on that particular day. When you're on, you're ON, and when you're not, well..

So what is the normal process if my POI is off - as I expect it to be? Shoot a group of five, wait a few minutes, then shoot another five, then adjust my windage and elevation?

As to the title, no, nothing fancy or documented or pedigreed as to any expertise I might have, other than over forty years of shooting and buying, selling, and working with guns. It was an honorary title given to me when Sir Henry and the administrators invited me to join, based on our friendship on other forums. I was honored to receive the title and I've certainly tried to live up to the title, but I would have joined, regardless. Why? The people, here. A forum is only as good as its members and this one is as good as it gets. Please feel free to attach any significance to the title you wish or even ignore if it suits you.

As to the sight adjustments, yes, that is the basic procedure, but its simplicity belies a much more complicated issue and that is shooter competence. Is the gun off or is it my shooting? That question bedevils a beginner or even intermediate shooter until they have many years of shooting experience under their belt. When you get to the point where you can consistently predict, without looking at the target, where that bullet has hit - bullseye, high, low, right or left - after each shot, you're there. Checking the target after the shot, in other words, just confirms what you already know. Until then, adjusting your sights will involve a lot of trial and error shooting.

[henry22]

Gotcha NCG. Thanks for the input. I had a good experience today at the range. There were some local police officers who had booked our 50 and 100 yard range for training. I plinked some potatoes and targets at the 25 yard range until they were finished.

What I notice, now more than ever, is almost all of the time, when my POI is off, it's definitely me. I figured this out by doing as you mentioned in a previous post, "resting the rifle under the receiver" - makes a HUGE difference. But I'm realizing the more I shoot, it's also how the rear rest is used. My Caldwell deadshot rear rest bag is nylon covered, the front bag is nylon on the bottom and sides, with a leather type of material (faux or real) not sure.

But the rear rest gives me a headache. The bottom slides across the table top of the bench (which is comprised of 2X4's). So to compensate, I'm usually squeezing the bag with my left hand, or sometimes pressing my chin into the left ear, and pushing my cheek into the comb, almost like when you're dozing off, resting your chin on your forearm. I find this to be the very best position, and I hit 95% of everything rested like this, and all potatoes.

The sliding of the bags is annoying, so today I bought a rubber mat at Wal-Mart. It's really rubbery, like a new car tire, almost sticky, and I think it'll stop the sliding of the bags.

[clovishound]

Full disclosure, I don't own a .22lr bolt action. I do, however, own a Savage bolt action centerfire rifle with the accutrigger. I will have to say that it is a tack driver, and I really like the accutrigger. I have shot several of my buddy's Savage rimfires, in .22lr .22 magnum and 17 WSM. They are all great shooting rifles.

As to the ammo question, I would suggest that CCI standard velocity is a great compromise in accuracy and cost. Wally World carries it for $3.50 a box around here, and I have found it to be far more accurate than any other non match grade ammo in all my .22s. I even find it to be more accurate than their Mini mags.

[North Country Gal]

I agree on the CCI SV. It's a great choice as a target practice round that won't break the bank. Shoot it every range trip in one gun or another.