My New Skinner Big Boy Express Sight

[flat_topp]

So today I measured my factory front sight at 0.556 inch high. That means I need a new sight that is a minimum 0.580 inch tall (0.556+0.024). BUT, this calculation only applies to the PMC ammo that I shot last week. It occurred to me today that I should have taken some other brands of ammo to the range with me, to see how much variation there is with the various loads. 0.580 inch may not be tall enough for some of the other 357mag ammo in my collection, including Aguila, Federal A.E., Magtech, S&B, Fiocchi, PPU.

Sounds like a good excuse to head out to the range again soon, to test out these other brands and determine a high/low/average. Then I can decide what new front sight to order.

[flat_topp]

I took my Henry BBS to the range today to try out a variety of commercial .357Magnum ammo. I shot 10 rounds of each at 50 yards. The results varied from 5 inches high to 0 inches high, with my factory front sight:

Federal American Eagle 5" high.
Fiocchi 3.5" high.
Aguila 3" high.
PPU 2.5" high.
PMC 2" high.
Magtech 2" high.
S&B 0" high.

So, according to my calculation, I need a new front sight that is at least 0.617 inches tall, if I want to be able to "zero" my rifle with the Federal ammo.

0.556" + 5x22/(50x3x12) = 0.617"

Or, I suppose I could just stick with the S&B and leave well enough alone ... Nah!

[ESquared]

Assume this was all from a pretty well secured, sled type rest and the rifle itself didn't really move and throw a variable into all of this? If so, seems like a really wide spread, especially the AE @ 5".

[flat_topp]

Assume this was all from a pretty well secured, sled type rest and the rifle itself didn't really move and throw a variable into all of this? If so, seems like a really wide spread, especially the AE @ 5".

No, I have no fancy sled rest. I was shooting off of a bench with a sandbag front rest, and my shoulder (rear) rest. Some rifle movement is ENTIRELY possible!

[ESquared]

Assume this was all from a pretty well secured, sled type rest and the rifle itself didn't really move and throw a variable into all of this? If so, seems like a really wide spread, especially the AE @ 5".

No, I have no fancy sled rest. I was shooting off of a bench with a sandbag front rest, and my shoulder (rear) rest. Some rifle movement is ENTIRELY possible!

Others may chime in with input, so stay tuned for that, but my $.02 is to not get too eager to jump to a taller front sight just yet. You've shown that you can land a shot, with the S&B, so it's a matter of duplicating that. That sight set-up delivered a bulls-eye, so build on it with sight hold, breathing, trigger press, etc.
And, I don't know how tall a front sight you could get from Henry, but it sounds like you may have the tallest one they have already.

[flat_topp]

And, I don't know how tall a front sight you could get from Henry, but it sounds like you may have the tallest one they have already.

Skinner makes a blued steel front sight at 0.650 inch tall that I am considering.

At the risk of revealing my lack of marksmanship skills, I'll post my targets from yesterday. I used some 2"dia white labels that my wife had in her office supply stash for extra bullseyes so that I could use a single 12" splatter target for up to three different groups at 10 rounds each. After shooting the first 5 rounds of Federal A.E. at the white bullseye on the left, I couldn't see the holes in the yellow border with my binoculars, thought I was off the paper, so I moved over to the white bullseye on the right to finish out the Federal set of 10.

Target50yds1.jpg (103.84 KiB) Viewed 13211 times

Target50yds2.jpg (111.23 KiB) Viewed 13211 times

Target50yds3.jpg (90.85 KiB) Viewed 13211 times

[ESquared]

It's hard to explain what's going on here without witnessing it, but a) you're still getting used to a new rifle; and b) this new rifle really seems to like Sellier & Belliot, so stick with it!

I've had great luck with Fiocchi .357 in my BBS, so it's a head-scratcher.

That S&B grouping at 50 yards is beautiful, so the simple answer is "do that more!"

In other words, I don't think it's a sight problem, but others here may have different thoughts.

Keep working and keep sharing. Eager to see how it plays out.

[flat_topp]

… this new rifle really seems to like Sellier & Belliot, so stick with it! … That S&B grouping at 50 yards is beautiful, so the simple answer is "do that more!"

I hear you! One thing I noticed about the S&B ammo was its low recoil compared to the other 6 brands I tested. I don't have a chronograph, so I can't compare bullet velocities, but I would estimate the recoil using the S&B to be only about 60 to 70 percent of the other stuff. But, I must add that my Henry shoots all of this 357 ammo very comfortably.

[ESquared]

All of it 158 gr?

[ESquared]

All of it 158 gr?

And, what sight picture are you using?

[flat_topp]

I'm using sight picture #1. 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the 2" dia red or white bullseye.

All ammo is 158 gr, except the Fiocchi which is 142 gr.

357Magnum.jpg (88.79 KiB) Viewed 14304 times

[ESquared]

Based on what you've explained, I'm no longer of any help, I'm afraid.

One would expect that the heavier bullet would drop more, but your lighter Fiocchi is landing lower than five (!) different 158 grain samples.

The only thing that stands out to me is that this is not all that "controlled" a set-up and that shooter movement is at play.

That said, I defer to the others here, who may have some suggestions.

[flat_topp]

... your lighter Fiocchi is landing lower than five (!) different 158 grain samples.

Actually, the Fiocchi is higher than five other samples, but who's counting?

... shooter movement is at play.

Shooter movement is indeed a factor, but I would expect it to be randomly distributed above and below the equator for a properly sighted-in rifle, unless I am consistently doing something to pull/push the shots upward. Ignoring the errors in windage, if I just look at the vertical distribution of 80 total shots fired, I count:

56 shots (70%) above the 2" high bullseye band
22 shots (28%) within the 2" high bullseye band
2 shots (2%) below the 2" high bullseye band

Since my Skinner rear peep sight is all the way down, it seems like the logical next step is to try out a taller front sight to bring the shot groups down. Hey, it's only money, and Andy at Skinner would probably appreciate the business!

[ESquared]

Yep, the data supports your next purchase! We're all doing our part to keep the economy going, aren't we?

[flat_topp]

So I finally received my new Skinner front sight. I ordered the one advertised as 0.650 inch. I measured the height as-received at 0.666 inch. The original Henry sight measures 0.556 inch. Here is a photo of my original Henry sight (left) next to the new Skinner sight (right). With family visiting from out of town, I probably won't be able to fit/install the new sight until later next week.

FrontSights.jpg (24.45 KiB) Viewed 14271 times

[JEBar]

looking forward to your coming range reports and comments

[ESquared]

Me, too, please keep us posted. Are you going to paint a square of some color or other at the top?

[flat_topp]

... Are you going to paint a square of some color or other at the top?

No, my plan at this point is to leave it black. In fact, I also ordered and received a bottle of "Skinner Cold Blue" for touch up, in case I have to file down the front sight a bit.

[flat_topp]

Update:
So this week I mounted my new front sight and a dovetail blank to dress up where I had removed the factory buckhorn sight. Took about 1.5 hours to do both, including filing the dovetails to fit, applying the cold blue to the shiny parts, and then tapping into place. I deliberately went slow, so as not to screw things up.

SkinnerFrontSight.jpg (50.06 KiB) Viewed 14244 times

Took the rifle to the range yesterday. With the now taller front sight, I had to raise the rear peep sight 2.5 rotations to get the correct elevation. No need to file down the front sight, for which I am glad. This is 10 rounds at 50 yards after making the elevation adjustment. A 2.75 inch group … I think I'll keep it!

Target_50yds.jpg (71.69 KiB) Viewed 14244 times

[PT7]

Definitely a keeper, flat_topp. Good job on the sight install, good results on only having to make the peep adjust and no filing to the front sight, and a great job on your target POIs!! I'd be a happy camper with all.

BTW, Congrats on conquering your rifle sight needs. Feels really cool to be the "victor," doesn't it?!?