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Of guns and dollars......

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fortyshooter
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Of guns and dollars......

Post by fortyshooter » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:13 am

Before I get started I must say it was refreshing,during our cold morning dog walk, to hear the sound of full auto fire from the military training range about 1.75 miles from us right across the river!

Back to subject...I was excited to see Colt bringing back the Python revolver since I missed the original release of the old ones.
So for $1500 you get the new one with structural and action improvements but fake wood(laminate) grips. Now for that kind of money why not real wood grips?
I bought a Fulton Armory M-1 Carbine couple years ago that was built up from original and new parts machined in house to exact M1 military specs
no corners cut on this one and beautiful walnut stock. Cost was $1400 bucks or about same or less than rebuilt vintage era units.
New Winchester,made in Japan,lever rifles are in that same pricing area too. So for a hopefully well built quality rifle/revolver that seems to be the entry fee.
Now lot of folks may say that is just too much to spend on a gun and might be so. But then we just got our latest Comcast bill for internet and TV and it jumped again to $194 bucks per month! We have scaled the TV portion down to the bone and only run 2 TV's with it.
Over a 12 month period that's over $2300 bucks just for me to post this and watch a maybe 3hours of TV a day...wife watches more.

So when you look at it that way 1500 bucks not too bad to enjoy a good looking smooth working .357 shooter if you can and want to.
Now do I need another revolver to get some smooth shooting out of compared to my vintage 1976 S&W Model 66 that has real wood grips and great fitted mechanicals....no not really!
Will watch how the new Python performs over at the Colt forums and see how the prices fluctuate over the coming year.
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BigAl52
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Re: Of guns and dollars......

Post by BigAl52 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:50 am

Great comparison Forty. I agree wood grips. Ive spent that and more on some of the guns I have. But at least one can recover some of those funds and maybe more in some cases. That TV and internet money is like buyin car ins its gone and never comin back
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dddrees
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Re: Of guns and dollars......

Post by dddrees » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:51 am

Personally I'm one who is willing and actually prefers to pay more for something I'm going to use and desire or enjoy when not using. There's more to just it functioning or going boom and I could say the same for other things I enjoy.

However as to whether a specific gun is worth it I generally not only look at that gun but other guns of a similar nature as well. Not comparing a revolver to a lever gun so much as comparing the new python to a Dan Wesson, an older S&W, or even an Older Python or Korth although they are more. The thing is I'm looking for THE GUN I want and not necessarily just a particular gun. I may very well have to wait longer but in the end I eventually get the ONE I want. I use higher cost options here but even if I'm not willing to pay as much I compare it to others in that category but determine whether a new python or say an older S&W is something I wish to own and enjoy more. Personally I've yet to hear anything about the new Python that peaks my interest but then again for my more expensive revolver I chose a Korth instead of a Python.
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North Country Gal
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Re: Of guns and dollars......

Post by North Country Gal » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:01 pm

We're in the same position with our vintage revolvers versus new production revolvers. The difference old and new is the way they're made, namely more hand-fitting with the vintage stuff and less hand fitting needed on the new production stuff via the more consistent specs on parts via CNC machining and, in some cases MIM parts. So which is better?

Assuming the same level of QC, I think you et a comparable gun. Our new production revolvers more than hold their own against the vintage stuff and, if anything, are more consistently accurate because the tolerances are tighter.

That QC, though, is the fly in the ointment. The use of CNC and MIM parts not only reduces the amount of hand-fitting needed, but it also gives gun makers the opportunity to reduce the number of quality control checks as the gun is being produced and it speeds up the time needed to produce a gun. Instead of highly skilled gun fitters needed in the old days, you can now give a bunch of parts to a production squad to assemble, along with a quota.

I certainly don't think you need to spend $1500 to get a good current production revolver, today. You can spend half that and get an excellent revolver IF you take the time to do a thorough inspection before you buy. If you insist on buying sight unseen, then it's luck of the draw as to how well-fitted a revolver you get. In my experience it can range for a revolver that is actually non-functional right out of the box, to a revolver that's good enough and useable to a revolver that is just outstanding.

What that $1500 SHOULD get you in a new production revolver is a revolver with better QC and more time invested in the assembly to match up parts for a better fit. This is where we were with our new production Dan Wesson 715 357 revolver a couple years, back. The fact is you cannot make a better fit revolver, regardless of vintage. Our vintage 1970s Dan Wesson 357 is also a well-fit revolver, but still not to the level of this new 715 (which are now running more than $1500). I'll put it up against any revolver Colt can make and that includes the new Python.

So is the new Python worth $1500? Is its better or worse than a vintage Python? I don't know because I've never seen one. If I wanted a Python just to shoot and not a Python to collect, I'd sure take a look at one. Will it appreciate in value like the vintage Pythons have? Your crystal ball is as good as mine, but I'm guessing it won't. Again, part of the attraction of vintage revolvers is the way the were made, back in a different era with different production techniques. Then, too, there's always a crowd that will never admit that anything new can be as good as guns made in the "good old days" and there is no arguing with these people. They will continue to pay whatever it takes to get a vintage gun. Lastly, it's long been a tradition to pay more for a gun stamped with the Colt name.
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dddrees
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Re: Of guns and dollars......

Post by dddrees » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:10 pm

I think the other factor when it comes to personnel is the amount of money they earn. I don't think people are being paid as much relatively as to what they might have gotten in the past. We're not talking about careers here or jobs for life like they may have been in the past. Employees are not as invested in the company because the company is not as invested in it's employees. These are production line guns which are mass produced and not individual guns being crafted one at a time.

To get a gun that gets the personal attention one used to get in the past you just have to buy an older gun or be willing to pay more ffor something being made today in addition to CNC they still use a bit of personal attention as well.
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Re: Of guns and dollars......

Post by Mistered » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:38 pm

but fake wood(laminate) grips.
Colt's website says:
Walnut grip with the iconic Colt medallion
Regardless...

Check out Gunbroker - there is one up to $1925 with 14 bids and another at $1600 with 9 bids - and a couple others as well.

Dealers will jump on the 'bandwagon' and sell their stock (what they get - if any) online for much higher than MSRP OR keep one, frame it and hang it on the wall with some ridiculous price on it.

These will most likely never end up as a typical 'stock' item for any dealer with one in the cabinet and 'Two in the back room'.

If they do it will be few and far between and price will always be at or higher than MSRP. Someone who has wanted a Python will gladly pay $1500 or more for a new one over the average $2500 or more for a 'used' one.

Colt is well aware of the market and will most likely limit production to ensure sales of all the guns they make as opposed to overproducing and having too many 'out there'. They want to keep the demand up. This is an 'old' story with Colt.

I could be ENTIRELY wrong and maybe we will see more of these at dealers - time will tell. I read on another forum a dealer is taking 'reservations' for them at $1400.
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