Hunting with Copper Bullets

[CT_Shooter]

I just read a provocative article describing the preference for copper versus lead bullets for hunting as it pertains to both, the quality of the harvest and the greater impact that it has on the environment.

I've never hunted, so in that regard, this is simply an academic subject for me...at least, so far. I do hope to hunt; it's on my bucket list. Nonetheless, I also care about the environment and preserving wildlife, so it's a subject that I will continue to consider, whether I ever hunt or not.

I didn't know that thirty states now regulate lead bullets for hunting. What do you think about it? Why?

The article is interesting and presents arguments from both sides.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/us/a ... ndors.html

[JEBar]

color me as unconvinced ..... I will continue to use jacketed bullets

[Mistered]

What do I think about it?
I think it's a radical, progressively based action of which there is little 'hard' data to support it and most likely other 'ulterior' motives behind the ban.
The video of all the animals eating the elk carcass is very cute but what is this proving? Can the 'Wildlife Agencies' (or whoever is bent on the lead ban) PROVE they have captured and tested the animals eating on the carcass? Of course not - these animals eat, run off and will most likely never be identified as the ones eating on the carcass much less become test subjects.

And between 10 million and 20 million animals, including eagles, hawks, bears, vultures, ravens and coyotes, die each year not from being hunted, but from lead poisoning, according to the Humane Society.

And this number comes from where? Again have they tested each and every one of the 10-20 million animals to prove the died from lead poisoning?
AND something else not quite 'realistic' here. When a game animal is killed the animal (including its carcass) is brought home for eventual cutting and packing and the remains are most often disposed of in ways that do not put it back to the wild for other animals to eat. The guts of course are left in the woods and will be eaten but again there is no correlation to the animals in the video and any specific testing on them.

This part frosts me:

In 2012, a coalition of environmental groups sued the federal government in a bid to force the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate lead bullets under the Toxic Substances Control Act.

Lets see, when all else fails lets just sue to get what 'WE' want.

And one more thing:

On a recent day, Ms. Tompkins fed a bald eagle with an eight-foot wingspan that had been rescued. It had a blood lead level of 813 micrograms per deciliter. Anything above 10 micrograms per deciliter is considered especially dangerous, and even 3 micrograms per deciliter can increase an animal’s mortality rate.

Well, I don't know where this bird got the lead from because Eagles are BIRDS OF PREY - not scavengers - they kill what they eat so whatever this bird ate was alive and well prior to getting caught by the Eagle.

[CT_Shooter]

Well, I don't know where this bird got the lead from because Eagles are BIRDS OF PREY - not scavengers - they kill what they eat so whatever this bird ate was alive and well prior to getting caught by the Eagle.

Actually, Eagles are scavengers.

Bald eagles are also scavengers that will feed on carrion. If they see an opportunity, bald eagles may even steal food from other birds such as osprey.
https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resourc ... Bald-Eagle

[BigAl52]

I use both but not for this reason. I use a Barnes TTSX in my 338 because it performs outstanding and I only use it for Elk hunting and just dont see spending the time to develop a load being worth it. They have done this with shotgun shells to no lead shot. Ive been loading for over 40 years and have exposed myself to alot of lead. Im still kickin at 66

[North Country Gal]

I do support banning lead for waterfowl hunting because mortality of waterfowl and other water birds from ingesting lead shot (and lead sinkers and jigs) is backed up by scientific research. And, yes, Bald Eagles are definitely carrion eaters and, in fact, often consume more carrion than live prey. Have watched them for hours, at a time, in the field, waiting nearby for a goose or other animal to die before before eating them. They are especially adept at cleaning up dead fish and waterfowl. On the other hand, Golden Eagles are ferocious hunters and tend much more toward live prey. Goldens would have been a much better choice for a national bird.

As for lead in the environment outside of wetlands and waterways, I've seen no scientific evidence that lead from shot or bullets is a major health concern. I think statewide blanket bans on the use of lead in hunting is too extreme, especially considering that lead cannot be absorbed though the skin, as is commonly thought. You have to ingest lead to have a problem.

As for consuming meat shot with lead bullets, I do think a lot of caution should be used and meat anywhere near a wound channel should be discarded. There is new information out that shows that more meat gets injected with small lead particles than we used to think when a deer has been shot. Certainly doesn't mean a ban should be placed on lead bullets, here, either, just that we need to inspect and be more careful when butchering game animals.

As for copper bullets, I, too, have had great accuracy with copper bullet loads in various guns, especially the Barnes stuff. Wouldn't feel at all disadvantaged having to use copper bullets. Would much prefer to have it be by choice, though.

[CT_Shooter]

A bit more to consider.

Lead’s properties make it the preferred material for ammunition. However, lead can be ingested or inhaled
and enter the body. When lead enters the bloodstream it can be harmful, affecting many body systems.

https://www.usashooting.org/library/You ... -_NSSF.pdf.

[North Country Gal]

Correct. It has to be inhaled or digested, thus the requirement for proper ventilation at indoor gun ranges.

[Ojaileveraction]

Birds of Prey are opportunists.
Benjamin Franklin suggested we use the Turkey as our National Bird because of the Bald Eagles scavenger tendencies.
Golden Eagles will go for dear carcass over chasing down a jackrabbit 100%.
Redtail hawks and other large buteos learn to look for road kill.
I personally have seen a Coopers Hawk try to drag off a road kill cotton tail easily twice his weight.
I don't find it far fetch at all that eagles, hawks and vultures would love to dine on a field of dead ground squirrels or prairie dogs left in a hay field after being killed by exploding lead bullets.
I've been witness to the care needed by Golden Eagles with high levels of lead in their blood.

I'm never going to stop using lead bullets for 99% of my shooting but for hunting "Lead free is the way to be"

[Yornoc3]

I remember reading that Teddy Roosevelt advocated changing our national symbol to the Grizzly Bear over the Bald Eagle, referring to the the eagle as a "dandified vulture". I'm using Hornady 250 grain Monoflex cartridges in my 45-70 for deer hunting, though, for two reasons: a bit lower recoil with very good accuracy, and 300 grain conventional lead bullets are a lot of lead (compared to a .243, for example) - so lead fragmentation, should I hit a shoulder, won't be an issue. So far on deer, one lung shot, one complete pass through. Of course, that's what's supposed to happen every time anyway, right?