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.44 mag vs .45-70

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North Country Gal
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by North Country Gal » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:33 am

[/quote] New guy here, also puzzling over the 44mag vs 45/70 question.

Not to hijack with my first comment, but probably no need for a near duplicate post either. I think this dovetails into the OP... ;)

Looking for a 'defensive' carbine for the camper. Can't shake the feeling that the dogs are going to come haulin' out of the aspens some day with something big on their tail, or I'm going to stumble into something on an evening walk. Been lucky so far that cats have been distant, bear have run, and moose have just stood and stared. FWIW, I'm not in grizzly country.

So the quote leads me to the question: Best large mammal stopper in an emergency, a zippy 240gr projectile or a 405gr loping along at cowboy load velocity...?

Thanks![/quote]

At those distances, the loopy trajectory the 405 grain wouldn't be a factor, but for black bear, I'd opt for an expanding bullet design in the 300-350 grain range. I think these loads would be a better stopper on black bear than hard lead 405 grain loads. Lots of popular factory loads in the 300-350 grain range, too. Save the cowboy loads for your fun shooting.
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JEBar
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by JEBar » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:11 pm

Morrow7x wrote:So the quote leads me to the question: Best large mammal stopper in an emergency, a zippy 240gr projectile or a 405gr loping along at cowboy load velocity...?

Thanks!
first, welcome to our community, delighted to have you join us .... we have both a Henry 45-70 and 44 Mag .... we also spend 6 months or more each year in our camper .... either one fired within the confines of a camper will almost certainly deafen all of those inside .... a bullet out of both has the distinct potential to pass through inside and/or outside walls and still travel a good ways with deadly power .... given proper bullet placement, both have the power to get the complete attention of cats, bear, and/or moose with the 45-70 coming out on top .... if carried on hikes, the weight additional weight of a 45-70 needs to be considered .... the 44 can be loaded with twice as many bullets .... we are currently spending the winter in Texas and both of ours are in our camper .... as far as purely a defensive firearm for a camper (or most anywhere else) is concerned, a 12 ga isn't a bad choice .... we also have one in our camper .... bottom line, the choice is a matter to personal preference and you can't make a bad choice with either Henry .... please keep us informed, I'm looking forward to following your selection process
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Morrow7x
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by Morrow7x » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:45 pm

Ha! I wasn't clear enough- I'm thinking of something KEPT in the camper for emergencies around the campsite, not something to be SHOT inside the camper. Defensive for me is anti-large mammal, not anti-personnel . We have a Jumping Jack X4, you can't swing a cat in that little camper, and typically do not see other folks when we're set up for a few days. ;)

But,not wanting to hijack with anything too specific to me- trying to build on the OP and the often asked recoil comparison question.

Obviously, if adding a hard-punching 45/70 load to the equation there isn't even a question, but figuring a hot 44mag and a cowboy 45/70 as the most 'perceived recoil approximate', wondering what conventional wisdom (or mathematics) says is the best stopper of the two...?
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by Mags » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:38 pm

.
... and the sneaky stove...
http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... ole#p66819
JEBar wrote: .... given proper bullet placement, both have the power to get the complete attention of cats, bear, and/or moose ...
Morrow7x wrote:... Best large mammal stopper in an emergency, a zippy 240gr projectile or a 405gr loping along at cowboy load velocity...?
Thanks!
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Morrow7x
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by Morrow7x » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:50 pm

That durned stove oughtta knowed better than to stand there!
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by mrguvna » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:47 pm

For around camp I might suggest a Ruger Super black hawk strapped to your side. trying to run to the camper and unstrap a 44 mag or 4570 carbine is losing valuable time, plus losing sight of the threat. I would personally use a sidearm in that case, and a revolver as big as you can comfortably shoot. Sometimes a 44 mag full load is hard to shoot correctly in a pistol for some folks. A carbine would not be my first choice for camping protection.
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by Redthies » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:03 am

mrguvna wrote:For around camp I might suggest a Ruger Super black hawk strapped to your side. trying to run to the camper and unstrap a 44 mag or 4570 carbine is losing valuable time, plus losing sight of the threat. A carbine would not be my first choice for camping protection.
In some states and provinces, handguns are not an option. I keep my carbine or shotgun at hand if I’m in that kind of country. No need to go running and unstrapping.

Morrow7x: don’t worry about a derail, you’re on topic here.

NCG: the lighter/faster expanding rounds are great, but why does almost every company that develops rounds for bear defence end up using heavy solid cast bullets? HSM, Buffalo Bore etc all seem to migrate to the big lumps of lead.

And to all the reloaded guys, thanks for the input, but I’m talking about commercially available cartridges as I don’t take my reloading gear on trips, and sometimes will need to replenish at a LGS or Cabelas etc. Off the shelf is the key for me.
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North Country Gal
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by North Country Gal » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:39 am

The hard cast bear loads are all about penetration and, yes, that is especially important with an animal the size of a griz. Black bears, though, are not a griz and a lot of us, up here in black bear country, find a 357 mag to be perfectly adequate as a carry gun for black bear defense. For sure, penetration should be more than adequate on a black bear when shooting a standard JSP or JHP in a 45-70, plus you'll get bullet expansion that you will not get with a hardcast lead round.
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by Ojaileveraction » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:08 am

Isn't the 45-70 already a 1/2 inch wider than a 44 magnum?
Only .05
Your right, I'm decimal point deficient at times.
Last edited by Ojaileveraction on Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .44 mag vs .45-70

Post by tractortad » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:28 am

Morrow7x wrote:Ha! I wasn't clear enough- I'm thinking of something KEPT in the camper for emergencies around the campsite, not something to be SHOT inside the camper. Defensive for me is anti-large mammal, not anti-personnel . We have a Jumping Jack X4, you can't swing a cat in that little camper, and typically do not see other folks when we're set up for a few days. ;)

But,not wanting to hijack with anything too specific to me- trying to build on the OP and the often asked recoil comparison question.

Obviously, if adding a hard-punching 45/70 load to the equation there isn't even a question, but figuring a hot 44mag and a cowboy 45/70 as the most 'perceived recoil approximate', wondering what conventional wisdom (or mathematics) says is the best stopper of the two...?
I think I'd opt for a Henry 44Mag BBS Carbine in your case - just like Mags suggested. It's a short, quick handling, powerful little rifle that would probably be easier to store in your camper than most 45-70's. 44Mag JHP should be able stop/scare anything that roams into your campsite (unless maybe you are camping on Kodiak Island).....
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