Carbine Questions: 45 LC vs. 44 Mag

[North Country Gal]

In my experience with a late 90s vintage Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt with its 1 in 38 twist rate (not the 1 in 16 as incorrectly advertised by Marlin) and ballard rifling, accuracy with standard 45 Colt loads was superb. So, no, I don't think that faster twist rate in the Henry will be much of an advantage with standard loads, as far as accuracy, but I doubt it would be a disadvantage, either. On the other hand, if you plan tp load the high velocity 300 grain, 45 Colt loads, it might be an advantage. Might also be an advantage for cowboy action shooting where you will be using the same loads in both rifle and revolver.

Remember, this whole twist rate thing is just one part of an overall equation for accuracy, not the entire equation. Then, too, guns can be very individual in nature and defy the norm. My advice on the Henry would be to ask others with that gun for their experience, rather than to try to figure things out based solely on the specs. Hopefully, we'll get some feedback from our Henry 45 Colt shooters.

[wingnut]

NGC-

Thanks for your above posts. Seems Ruger wised up for their 77/44. It has a 1:20 twist. I have a buddy pushing 400g cast thru 1 subsonicly.

[ESquared]

I can't see myself loading up 300 gr loads in a 45LC, but you never know, I guess. I hear you in terms of the "individual in nature" aspects of all of this. To me, that's another advantage of reloading: I can continue to tweak powders and projectiles (both types and weights) until I find the the magical combo my rifle "likes."

Big Al likes his 45LC Brass Carbine, but would love to hear from other owners (brass or otherwise)!

[Rifletom]

Can't speak on the .44 mag, but, I'll let you know about the .45 Colt very soon. My Henry is being delivered today to my local FFL. Heck, I'm already loading two different loads for it. 250gr rnfp from Missouri Bullets and 200gr rnfp from RedLine[discontinued, I believe].

[DAVIDF]

Thanks, NCG! I KNEW you'd have some historical perspective on twist rates, not to mention some "ballistical" analysis (that's probably not a word, but I like it!).
So my question remains, Why the different twist rate in the 45LC? And now another question, based on your comments above:

Does the faster twist rate in the 45LC equate to any more inherent accuracy in that cartridge out of the 16.5" barrel than the 44Mag (assuming identical bullet weights and/or powder charges)?

The shorter the barrel, the faster the twist rate should be for best accuracy. Of course, that is relative to the weight(length) of the bullet and the velocity of the loads that you want to use. Faster the velocity with a given bullet, the slower the twist needed and vice versa. For example short barreled ARs tend to come with faster twist rates, usually 1:7 or even faster.

I have a 20" barreled Big Boy in .44. It stabilizes 200gr & 240gr hard cast bullets at slow velocities quite well. One of my favorite very light plinking loads is a 240gr cast over 5.0 gr of Red Dot. The velocity out of the Big Boy is only 860fps, yet it is still quite accurate at 210 yards. At least as far as I can tell.

I have not tried heavier bullets out of the rifle. Some people have experienced poor accuracy with 44 bullets in a 1:38 twist barrel. Although, I have seen Hickok45 using 300gr cast (sized at .431) out of his Marlins with good accuracy at 100 yards.

I use cast sized at .432 out of the Big Boy as the barrel's groove diameter is .431. The proper size of the bullet is quite often more important that the barrel's twist rate for good accuracy.

If you are going to use heavier bullets, the 45 LC would be a safer choice with it's faster twist. I would probably go that way if I were buying one now as I would love to use some of the really heavy bullets available for 45 LC. If you are going to only use 250gr or thereabouts and lighter bullets, either will probably perform fine.

[ESquared]

Thanks, NCG! I KNEW you'd have some historical perspective on twist rates, not to mention some "ballistical" analysis (that's probably not a word, but I like it!).
So my question remains, Why the different twist rate in the 45LC? And now another question, based on your comments above:

Does the faster twist rate in the 45LC equate to any more inherent accuracy in that cartridge out of the 16.5" barrel than the 44Mag (assuming identical bullet weights and/or powder charges)?

The shorter the barrel, the faster the twist rate should be for best accuracy.

That's what has me stumped, as both of these rifles have the same barrel length, shoot about the same size projectiles (or they can), and yet the twist rates are drastically different.

Maybe I'm chasing the fog here, but it just struck me as odd...

[.45Steel]

If you would happen to own a revolver in one of those calibers, that is the one I would recommend. A rifle / handgun combination can make an enjoyable range outing.

Very good answer. I almost bought a Steel in .44 mag. I had it in my hands at the lgs when I spotted the .45 colt. and thought "That sure would be a nice companion for my Blackhawk 45colt/45acp convertible". No buyers remorse here. She shoots some pretty stiff loads that will keep right up with my friends .44 mag.

[ESquared]

Can't speak on the .44 mag, but, I'll let you know about the .45 Colt very soon. My Henry is being delivered today to my local FFL. Heck, I'm already loading two different loads for it. 250gr rnfp from Missouri Bullets and 200gr rnfp from RedLine[discontinued, I believe].

Look forward to hearing about your first impressions and seeing pics, not to mention your range reports for those two loads! COngrats in advance!

[DAVIDF]

Thanks, NCG! I KNEW you'd have some historical perspective on twist rates, not to mention some "ballistical" analysis (that's probably not a word, but I like it!).
So my question remains, Why the different twist rate in the 45LC? And now another question, based on your comments above:

Does the faster twist rate in the 45LC equate to any more inherent accuracy in that cartridge out of the 16.5" barrel than the 44Mag (assuming identical bullet weights and/or powder charges)?

The shorter the barrel, the faster the twist rate should be for best accuracy.

That's what has me stumped, as both of these rifles have the same barrel length, shoot about the same size projectiles (or they can), and yet the twist rates are drastically different.

Maybe I'm chasing the fog here, but it just struck me as odd...

Yep, always struck me as odd too! What I have also wondered, is why did SAAMI set a spec for the groove diameter to be at .431 for a .44 Mag rife and the groove diameter for a handgun chambered in the same cartridge at .429 (or .430 whichever it is)?

[ESquared]

Yep, always struck me as odd too! What I have also wondered, is why did SAAMI set a spec for the groove diameter to be at .431 for a .44 Mag rife and the groove diameter for a handgun chambered in the same cartridge at .429 (or .430 whichever it is)?

There's that head-scratcher, where the diameter is actually smaller than the commonly used "Caliber" and then there's 45LC, where the most common diameter of the boolit is .452, so slightly bigger than the "label."

That is right, isn't it? .452? Because I'm seeing .451 as well. Which is the right one for the Henry LC? Anybody know for sure, or does it matter?