Carbine Questions: 45 LC vs. 44 Mag

[ESquared]

It's never too early to begin stalking your next Henry, and (today, anyway) I'm convinced I will some day own a Brass Henry. I've been advised (wisely so, I believe) that a Carbine version is easier to handle and carry. So, then it's off to Which Caliber?
In looking at the 44 Mag (H006R) alongside the 45 Long Colt (H006CR), the one thing that jumps out immediately is the drastic difference in twist rate of the two barrels.

Why does the 44 Mag have a twist rate of 1:38 and the 45LC's twist rate is 1:16?

Beyond that, is there an advantage for a reloader (which I'm slowly becoming) with one caliber over the other? This would just be a fun range gun, not a hunting rifle, so not looking for a grenade launcher. Just the fun of loading different recipes for accuracy and range fun. I may or may not even put a scope on it. Probably not (as of this evening), but a nice Skinner/Lyman globe set-up. So, 100 yds maximum.

Beyond those two questions, what else am I missing in this evaluation?

As always, thanks in advance!

[Steve51]

If you would happen to own a revolver in one of those calibers, that is the one I would recommend. A rifle / handgun combination can make an enjoyable range outing.

[ESquared]

If you would happen to own a revolver in one of those calibers, that is the one I would recommend. A rifle / handgun combination can make an enjoyable range outing.

I have tried a few, and could not warm up to any of them. So, it's a rifle-only consideration set.

[fortyshooter]

That's a good question on the rifling differences! I own both calibers in lever rifles and both the .45 and .44 seem to shoot really well regardless.
I'm finding my new .44 Henry is a VERY nice shooter ! Both the .44 and .45 are great calibers to reload at the level you feel comfort with.
I load .45 and .44 Mag at same 9-9.5 Unique powder level with 240-255 gr. bullets for general use.
Have you fired a nice Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag?

[PT7]

Hey, ESquared,

Not very well-qualified to answer your Qs, but have a couple of thought re. caliber choice.

I cannot speak to the .44 Magnum...zip experience there. Same with reloading considerations.
And I don't have a Henry...yet...in .45LC. But from the recent months I've been shooting my Uberti .45LC Russian top break revolver, I have no doubt I would choose the .45LC Henry. And totally agree with the recommendation for the Carbine. I couldn't be more satisfied with my SGC.

The .45LC is simply a unique bullet to shoot. Out of the three revolver calibers I have/shoot, it is my favorite so far. And it would fully suit your planned use:

"...would just be a fun range gun, not a hunting rifle, so not looking for a grenade launcher. Just the fun of loading different recipes for accuracy and range fun....So, 100 yds maximum."

Like I said, not a substantive eval for you; just my preference for a very cool cartridge. It will be interesting to see which one your stalking brings home.

Take care.
Bob aka PT7

It's never too early to begin stalking your next Henry, and (today, anyway) I'm convinced I will some day own a Brass Henry. I've been advised (wisely so, I believe) that a Carbine version is easier to handle and carry. So, then it's off to Which Caliber?
In looking at the 44 Mag (H006R) alongside the 45 Long Colt (H006CR), the one thing that jumps out immediately is the drastic difference in twist rate of the two barrels.

Why does the 44 Mag have a twist rate of 1:38 and the 45LC's twist rate is 1:16?

Beyond that, is there an advantage for a reloader (which I'm slowly becoming) with one caliber over the other? This would just be a fun range gun, not a hunting rifle, so not looking for a grenade launcher. Just the fun of loading different recipes for accuracy and range fun. I may or may not even put a scope on it. Probably not (as of this evening), but a nice Skinner/Lyman globe set-up. So, 100 yds maximum.

Beyond those two questions, what else am I missing in this evaluation?

As always, thanks in advance!

[ESquared]

That's a good question on the rifling differences! I own both calibers in lever rifles and both the .45 and .44 seem to shoot really well regardless.
I'm finding my new .44 Henry is a VERY nice shooter ! Both the .44 and .45 are great calibers to reload at the level you feel comfort with.
I load .45 and .44 Mag at same 9-9.5 Unique powder level with 240-255 gr. bullets for general use.
Have you fired a nice Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag?

Thanks, Fortyshooter, appreciate your perspective as an owner of both. From what I've researched, the 45LC is a "softer shooter" (recoil-wise), but I'm gathering that's because most 45LC factory ammo is not as stout as most 44Mag factory ammo due to the fact that there are lots of older, "less stout" 45LC firearms out there (at least that's what I've read). When reloading, I'm guessing you could make either one as gung-ho or as tame as you'd like...

Interesting that you're using Unique at the same weight on both. Assume the "kick" is about the same?

I'm about to test out Unique @9.5 gr on some 110grain 357 XTPs that I'm trying to turn into plinkers. Just starting out, but liking Unique so far.

No experience with Rugers other than an SP101 in 357 (2.25"), which was the last revolver I owned (and sold). Will look at eth Super Blackhawk, though, thanks for the tip!

[ESquared]

Hey, ESquared,

Not very well-qualified to answer your Qs, but have a couple of thought re. caliber choice.

I cannot speak to the .44 Magnum...zip experience there. Same with reloading considerations.
And I don't have a Henry...yet...in .45LC. But from the recent months I've been shooting my Uberti .45LC Russian top break revolver, I have no doubt I would choose the .45LC Henry. And totally agree with the recommendation for the Carbine. I couldn't be more satisfied with my SGC.

The .45LC is simply a unique bullet to shoot.

Thanks, B, appreciate your thoughts and endorsement. Not surprising, knowing how you've done with that Uberti. I'm kinda drawn to the "heritage" aspect of the 45LC, and this is a longer-term stalk, anyway.

Still scratching my head over the huge difference in twist rates when the projectiles are so similar...hope someone can help me out with that one.

[robert1408]

I'm considering a BBS Carbine in either 44 magnum or 45 colt. I am also wondering about the slow twist rate of Henry 44 lever guns. I do have a Henry Single Shot in 44 magnum and it's twist is 1:20". It's very accurate with most any bullet 240 grains and up. That slow twist in the 44 lever gun should favor lighter bullets.

[North Country Gal]

The why of the 1 in 38 twist rate in the 44 mag rifle barrels, instead of the 1 in 20 used in 44 mag pistols has been the subject of much speculation over the years. It all started when Ruger introduced the first 44 mag rifle in their 44 mag autoloader in 1961 and went with the 1 in 38. Marlin followed suit in 1969 with their new edition of the 1894 in 44 mag with its 1 in 38.

A slow twist rate, such as a 1 in 38, had been standard for 44 cal rifles, dating back to the black powder days. Some say that may have influenced Ruger's thinking. Rifles develop faster velocities than pistols, so some folks claim that going with a slower twist might reduce leading in a rifle. Others have said that 200 and 240 grain bullets have always been standard in 44 cal rifles and don't need a fast twist rate to stabilize at rifle velocities. For sure, no one was thinking in terms of those big 300 grain bullets in the 44 mag, back in the 60s. Whatever the reason, Ruger started it and many other manufacturers followed suit in their 44 mag rifles.

I've owned a few Marlin 1894s with their 1 in 38 twist over the years and they shot the 240 grain loads fine. Not great accuracy, mind you, but good enough for hunting purposes. These same rifles shot the big 300 grain bullets, okay, for up close work, but I could see a drop off in accuracy, (not to mention a big jump in recoil) out there at 100 yards. By comparison, shooting my TC Contender with its 14" barrel with a 1 in 20 twist, it makes the Marlins I used to shoot look bad in the accuracy department with any 44 mag bullet weight, but especially with those big 300 grainers. (By the way, it's not the weight of the bullet, it's the length of the bullet and the velocity used that determines stability and the twist needed.)

Back to the Henry. I notice that Henry uses the 1 in 20 on their new single shot. Rumor has it on other forums that Henry plans to go with the 1 in 20 on their other 44 mag rifles at some point, too. I would not take forum gossip to heart, though. Might be worth a call to Henry to get the real info.

[ESquared]

Thanks, NCG! I KNEW you'd have some historical perspective on twist rates, not to mention some "ballistical" analysis (that's probably not a word, but I like it!).
So my question remains, Why the different twist rate in the 45LC? And now another question, based on your comments above:

Does the faster twist rate in the 45LC equate to any more inherent accuracy in that cartridge out of the 16.5" barrel than the 44Mag (assuming identical bullet weights and/or powder charges)?