Stock Warning

[PT7]

Hidden,

There is another thread I wrote about contacting Henry's president re. this issue: http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... t=imperato You might find some of the various comments interesting.

Here is the response I got from him, and he states that nothing is wrong with his stocks (I underlined that part in his comments).
Oh yes, still awaiting DanAtHenry to "address the Forum." It will be interesting to read what he says.
PT7

Anthony Imperato <anthony@henryusa.com>
To: Bob
Today. 29-Nov-2018, at 6:16 AM
Thank you very much for your ongoing support and concern. I certainly appreciate it and I am extremely grateful. When you use high quality American walnut with good grain, and the individual gun boxes are thrown, dropped, and tossed by UPS/FedEx, they are prone to damage from the shock. We expect to see this number spike during the fall holiday season. There is nothing inherently wrong with the stocks. We have taken steps to improve our packaging as well. Of course if a stock breaks we replace it at no charge. I will bring this to the attention of Andy Wickstrom our VP/GM and Dan who is the Director of Corporate Communications. Dan will address the forum as well. From the numbers of replacement stocks shipped compared to 300,000 guns being shipped it is a very insignificant number – that being said, we want it to be close to zero.

I wonder what the design flaw is that is causing these to crack. I was just about to break down and order a brass 45-70 but now I’ll just wait and see. Any ideas on the cause?

[Yornoc3]

I tend to agree with him about that, simply because I can't imagine how they could get it wrong. Two piece stocks on single shot rifles and shot guns go back to matchlocks. Sure, you'll occasionally see one broken, but usually it's from a fall, getting loose, over-tightening, some kind of "outside" cause, not just appearing broken in the box on a factory new (or just repaired) firearm. There's just something weird about that rash of broken stocks .

[steider]

I can truly say that the way of shipping is not the cause. I have been having issues since August. Well before the holiday season. My 30-30 had a 3” crack with the box being in perfect condition. My 45-70 and 44 and 20 gauge was perfect out of box but the stock got loose during the first 25-50 shots. Henry replaced the loose stocks and my 44 cracked at the range after 100 through it. Henry replaced my 44 stock again and when I opened the box from Henry warranty repair the new stock was already cracked. The same with my 20 gauge. My 45-70 and 30-30 was just shipped back to me from Henry warranty repair so I should get them this week. I also have a 12 gauge but I haven’t shot it yet. Anthony Imperato emailed me and said he has his VP and head engineer working on this issue. All I’m doing is just shooting Winchester white box through these rifles and they are cracking even with pistol caliber rounds. When a 44 Mag Winchester white box cracks a rifle stock, something is seriously wrong. When a new stock can’t survive 2 days shipping without cracking in an undammaged box, something is seriously wrong. These pics are from a new stock when I opened the box from Henry warranty repair. The box and wrapping was in perfect shape.

[steider]

This was my 30-30 new in box. The box and wrapping was in perfect shape.

[steider]

Also, when stocks are cracking at the factory something is wrong. This is an email I got back in September from my first warranty repair of my 20 Gauge. Henry packs all their rifles the same way for shipping and have been for many years.This issue is only with the single shot models. I’m pretty sure Anthony Imperato knows there is something not right here. All I know, is that shipping is not cheap at UPS for 2 day delivery. Any profit they made on my single shots is long gone.

Good Morning Michael,

I have been informed that the buttstock cracked during repair, and wanted to get your ok to put on a replacement.

Sincerely,

Tia Randolph – CSR
Henry Repeating Arms, Co.
107 W. Coleman St.
Rice Lake, WI 54868

[North Country Gal]

Just from that pic, I can see one potential problem. Note the direction of the grain in that wrist area. In my years of collecting Marlin and Winchester lever guns, I would now and then come across a gun with a crack in the wrist of the stock where the butt stock attached to the receiver. Not often, mind you, but often enough to see a pattern. It has since become a red flag area for me when looking at a used lever gun or other gun with two-piece stock.

We all love curl and figure in our walnut stocks, but one place you never want that is in the wrist of the stock and this goes double for guns with two piece stocks. A proper piece of walnut for a butt stock should have grain that is straight as an arrow in the wrist of the stock. This is the strongest possible configuration for this high stress area. The grain should never run crosswise in the wrist, only in line with the wrist. Stocks need to be chosen, carefully, for this feature and stocks that have too much curl or are less than straight grained in the wrist should be rejected. More than that, such a section of wood should not have been cut into a butt stock.

Here's an example of a wrist with proper grain. It's on my 1946 vintage Marlin 39A. Will probably last another 70 years without cracking.


Same for this even older WW II vintage Winchester Model 61 butt stock.


Another source of stocks cracking is wood that has been improperly dried and is still green. I have seen this happen more and more on current production guns as manufacturers try to rush things for the sake of keeping up with production. It takes a long time to properly dry a piece of wood before you start cutting. A green stock will change shape as it dries. You'll often see this in a change of bedding or an action with screws that mysteriously work loose. In severe cases, the stock will crack as it dries, on its own, without being used. Has happened to me.

Now, before everyone breaks out the flamethrowers, I am not pointing fingers at Henry. I'm just sharing something I've learned when buying old and new guns. When buying that Henry, do yourself a favor and DO check the wrist area on the stock. Don't be blinded by that beautiful curl and figure and, yes, I love that Henry uses such beautiful walnut in their stocks. Remember, that plain jane straight grained stock may not win any beauty prizes, but it will be the strongest.

[ESquared]

Fantastic points, NCG, and what had been tumbling in my brain was the issue you raise about dealing with wood that's "not ready" for production, just for the sake of keeping up with production.

Henry's growth has been rapid of late, and I doubt it would surprise many of us to learn that some of these stock issues (and a few others that have arisen lately) are related to the company's efforts to keep up with that growth.

Such is Imperato's challenge, but the good news is that it's not a public company and subject to stockholders' insistence on growth for growth's sake. I believe he will sort it all out.

[North Country Gal]

I agree, all the way. All the more important for those having issues to bring it up and share. Good work, folks.

[Yornoc3]

A great point made by NCG on stock wood not being properly cured before use. I'm reminded of the infamous Browning salt wood fiasco. Sometimes you just have to wait for the natural results . Wood can only cure so fast, and even then, local humidity conditions can affect it later. One of the reasons I finally went to a couple of synthetic stocked hunting rifles for wet conditions, which are pretty typical of Northern WI deer seasons. Still, nice wood such as Henry uses is more entertaining to look at on the deer stand, when nothing is showing up .

[North Country Gal]

No doubt about it, synthetic stocks have some very practical advantages. Looks isn't one, but some aren't too bad to my eye.