45/70 & 300 gr Barnes

[snell]

I finally found a combination the Henry likes. The 300 gr Barnes Original soft point flat base and 47.o gr of IMR 4198 and Win Lr primers. Recoil is moderate and the chrony says 2040 at 6'. Sights are set 3" high at 100 (I held low for the pic) and about 6" low at 200.
I am getting some serious copper fouling however. After about 20 rounds from a cleaned scrubbed barrel shows in the pic. I'm hoping that the barrel settles down after some use.

https://vgy.me/uiTTUE

https://vgy.me/f5hJQs


I've used some J-B bore cleaning compound this time so perhaps things will get better. Has anyone else had fouling problems?

Art

[JEBar]

The 300 gr Barnes Original soft point flat base and 47.o gr of IMR 4198 and Win Lr primers.

I am getting some serious copper fouling however. After about 20 rounds from a cleaned scrubbed barrel shows in the pic. I'm hoping that the barrel settles down after some use.

Has anyone else had fouling problems?

Art

impressive 200 yard results .... we use IMR4198 and your 47 g charge is more than reasonable .... we use 51.5 g with our 300 g bullet loads and haven't had any similar issues .... could it be something with the construction of the sidewalls of Barnes bullet you have chosen ? .... we use the Barnes Buster 400 g, so far, no fowling and no clue if they use the same copper in its sidewalls

[snell]

[[/quote]


impressive 200 yard results .... we use IMR4198 and your 47 g charge is more than reasonable .... we use 51.5 g with our 300 g bullet loads and haven't had any similar issues .... could it be something with the construction of the sidewalls of Barnes bullet you have chosen ? .... we use the Barnes Buster 400 g, so far, no fowling and no clue if they use the same copper in its sidewalls[/quote]


I hope it's not the bullets. I really want to use a soft point rather than a HP and Barnes seems to be the only 300 SP gr available. Just finished up with a two hour scrubbing and cleaning so the next trip will give me an idea of how much my scrubbing accomplished. Oh, and while I would love to say that was a 200 yard group I must admit it was from 100 and my OP was not clear. Still, not a bad group for a hunting rifle.

Art

[JEBar]

I hope it's not the bullets. I really want to use a soft point rather than a HP and Barnes seems to be the only 300 SP gr available. Just finished up with a two hour scrubbing and cleaning so the next trip will give me an idea of how much my scrubbing accomplished. Oh, and while I would love to say that was a 200 yard group I must admit it was from 100 and my OP was not clear. Still, not a bad group for a hunting rifle.

Art

I've been highly impressed with the 300 g ballistic silvertip produced by the combined technologies of Nosler and Winchester .... its coating is supposed to reduce fowling https://www.natchezss.com/nosler-ballis ... 50-ct.html

they offer a 30 caliber 30-30 bullet with the same technology .... I plan to begin using them in our Winchester Model 94

[BigAl52]

I saw similiar copper fouling with mine shooting the 350 gr Hornady flat points. I scrubbed it out but in the future Im not going to worry about it so much as I read as long as the accuracy doesnt go away leave it alone. Glad to see you were able to make her shoot well I would be happy with that myself from the 45-70. I have the all weather version and Im still playing with mine. But I have 3031 and 4198. Some guys are using 2400 for plinking loads but I havent been able to locate any around town. Al

[BobGinVA]

I bet if you drop your load down to about 1800fps, your bore will be much cleaner...however, if you want to keep your current load, put about 50 rounds of "something else" (ie. moderate loads), then re-try your current load...should smooth out...Bob in VA

[JEBar]

I bet if you drop your load down to about 1800fps, your bore will be much cleaner.....Bob in VA

now that would be an interesting experiment .... muzzle velocity most certainly is a significant factor in lead buildup .... it seems logical that it might play a factor in copper buildup as well .... that said, some of our 300 WBY loads produce muzzle velocities in excess of 3,500 fps with no leading issues .... to me that most certainly opens the discussion into the copper used in forming the bullet's jacket

[BobGinVA]

I'm just suggesting that the bore needs "Flitz" or a polishing compound, or about 50 rounds of "something else" to smooth out the bore...I have a stainless Rem. 700 in 308 that wouldn't hold 4 inches at 200M when it was new...once I polished the bore with "Blue Magic" (aluminum polish), it shrunk to about 2" at 200M. AS this was my silh. gun at the time, 4" groups at 200M wasn't even close to what I was looking for.....BobG in VA

[snell]

Well, another range trip to try some IMR 4895 (I have 8 lbs of it) and found that 61 gr behind a Barnes 300 gr left unburned powder grains. Not a good result. What's more troubling is the copper fouling. After the last range trip (see above post) I found the grooves lousy with copper. It took me forever to get them clean (Sweets 69 & J-B paste). With a squeaky clean bore I hit the range today an after 9 rounds this is what I found.

https://vgy.me/C8bXIK

I've sent off an email to Henry's and perhaps they can offer a solution. Those little chatter marks in the grooves make be nervous however. I keep everyone posted.

Art

[JEBar]

Well, another range trip to try some IMR 4895 (I have 8 lbs of it) and found that 61 gr behind a Barnes 300 gr left unburned powder grains. Not a good result.

Art

did you run any of them through a chronograph .. .. muzzle velocity can have a direct impact on a copper/brass/lead buildup .... Nosler doesn't list IMR 4895 as a powder recommended for their 300 gr 45-70 Ballistic Silvertip so I have no way of knowing how 61 gr stacks up .... if it isn't burning all of the powder, it would seem that the charge may be too heavy ....

[snell]

Hodgdon site lists 58.5-65.0 of 4895 in lever guns for 300 gr bullets. It was a weird kinda overcast today and the chrony wouldn't register. The last time I had this fouling the 300s were moving at just over 2000 fps and based upon the Hodgdon data I would think the 4895 load would be pretty close. At least the POI on the target was close. Again, I'm sorta worried about those chatter marks in the groves. We'll see what Henry has to say.

[JEBar]

I'm sorta worried about those chatter marks in the groves. We'll see what Henry has to say.

I'm looking forward to that as well

[snell]

Well with their usual efficiency Henry got back to me first think this morning. Here is what they said:

Thank you for owning a Henry rifle. Sorry to hear about the issue you are having with it.

If you suspect something wrong with the bore, you do not need to send pictures. To determine the cause and corrective action to repair the rifle, we would like to bring it back for our gunsmith to inspect and repair under warranty.

What is the serial #? And how long have you had the rifle?


I sent the requested info and we'll see what happens. I'm always amazed and pleased with Henry Customer support! I'll keep ya advised.

[JEBar]

no surprise at the service, outstanding as always .... looking forward to your continued updates

[snell]

Amazing Henry customer service! Chronology follows:
10/5 sent 1st email asking for advice about copper fouling
10/6 response from henry that they would forward my concerns to Wisconsin. Later that day I got a return shipping label from Wisconsin directing me to return the rifle for service.
10/9 Rifle shipped by me.
12/12 Arrived at Henry factory
10/13 rifle left factory headed back to me
10/19
Rifle arrived at my door with a NEW BARREL installed.
Absolutely amazing customer service with no fuss. Can't wait to get back to the range.

Art

[JEBar]

outstanding .... not surprising in the least but truly outstanding

[ssonb]

Why did you shoot the ruler? I hope you were not holding it at the time!

[snell]

Well, a new barrel (thanks Henry) and a change of projectiles has the rifle ready for the deer woods. I was about out of 300 Barnes and had a full box of Speer 400 gr so decided to try them. I found that 45 grs of IMR 3031 yielded 1470 fps on average and produced nice accuracy. This is from 100 yards off the bench. I'm pretty sure the two low ones ere me.

https://vgy.me/26RqlP

So it will be 400 gr and not the 300 I wanted but I cant disregard this accuracy. By the way, there was very little copper fouling after 15 shots so I'm a happy camper.

Art

[Jrprock]

If you would please snap a shot of the copper in this barrel. And have you slugged this or the other barrel?

[snell]

Here is the old barrel after 9 rounds. It had been scrubbed clean prior to the range trip.

https://vgy.me/C8bXIK

I have not slugged either barrel. New barrel has seen 15 rounds and no obvious copper in the lands. So far so good.
Art