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Copper Fouling

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Mags
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by Mags » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:41 am

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Amazon has them.
search for "rifle cleaning cable" or "OTIS cable". Either will get you several finds from different makers.

I use three: the bore snake, cable/cord and solid rod. Bore snake through first dry, to sweep out the bore of anything loose. The solid rod, again, is what I use to fish out the squeegee I have plugging the receiver end of the barrel after soaking for copper. The cable/cord I use with the usual rod end cleaning attachments to drag #9 soaked swabs through the bore, from the receiver and out the muzzle.
ESquared wrote:I sort of remember that thread, but I sure don't recall the bore squeegies. I need to pay more attention. I also need to get out more, as I've never heard of bore squeegies.
The Remington website shows a vid with a guy pulling them out through the muzzle with a cord, but Amazon doesn't seem to have the cords. Seems like a cool idea, but I'd like to be able to use it like a bore snake (or maybe in addition to a bore snake).

Anybody know where to score the cord?
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JEBar
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by JEBar » Mon May 27, 2019 7:33 pm

JEBar wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:57 pm
my go to hunting rifles (a Remington 700 BDL chambered in 300 WBY Mag, a Browning BLR 308, and a Remington 700 30-06) don't see anywhere near as much time our of the vault as they used to .... as noted previously, I've owned/used them for decades and copper fouling hasn't been an issue .... I can't help but wonder if changes in the way today's firearms manufacturing lends itself to fouling .. :?: .. that said, I still haven't seen any impact in accuracy from copper fouling
I posted the comment above in this thread back in July 2018 .... with plans to take our 300 on our coming trip to South Dakota to fire at multiple gatherings, I took her out of the vault and gave here a thorough cleaning .... one that included cleaning the barrel with copper solvent .... while its certainly possible, I don't recall ever doing so before .... with muzzle velocities exceeding 3,200 fps, finding copper residue came as no shock .... saying right up front that at no time in its history has a copper buildup every affected its accuracy .... since I recently mounted a new, more powerful scope on the rifle, I figured this would be a good time to thoroughly clean the barrel .... lets just say that the dark purple patches clearly proved that there was a copper coating on the lands and grooves .... I worked on it for over two hours yesterday and finished spent another couple of hours today .... now the barrel shines and patches come out clean .... back when we purchased the rifle and sighted it in, any possible impact of copper fouling on the rifle's impact point never crossed our mind .... now I find myself wondering what, if any, influence new fouling will have
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Mags
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by Mags » Mon May 27, 2019 11:06 pm

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It would interesting to hear how it shoots unfouled. might be you got used to shooting it fouled (without knowing it) so might shoot different clean.
JEBar wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:33 pm
.... back when we purchased the rifle and sighted it in, any possible impact of copper fouling on the rifle's impact point never crossed our mind .... now I find myself wondering what, if any, influence new fouling will have
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by JEBar » Tue May 28, 2019 1:00 am

it has long been my number 1 hunting rifle .... I have no clue how many rounds have been fired through it but whatever that number is would be a tiny percentage of the round fired through our Henry rifles .... once sighted in, I'd fire it a few times before big game season, at bear/boar/deer during their seasons, and occasionally during the season to check the zero .... I don't recall ever having to resight it .... now that I've up graded the scope I can't help but wonder if things will go the same way
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by GFK » Tue May 28, 2019 6:20 am

JEBar wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:00 am
it has long been my number 1 hunting rifle .... I have no clue how many rounds have been fired through it but whatever that number is would be a tiny percentage of the round fired through our Henry rifles .... once sighted in, I'd fire it a few times before big game season, at bear/boar/deer during their seasons, and occasionally during the season to check the zero .... I don't recall ever having to resight it .... now that I've up graded the scope I can't help but wonder if things will go the same way
Understandable. Please keep us posted. I understand there could be an effect but cannot comment from experience.
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by GunnyGene » Tue May 28, 2019 7:30 am

JEBar wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:33 pm
JEBar wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:57 pm
my go to hunting rifles (a Remington 700 BDL chambered in 300 WBY Mag, a Browning BLR 308, and a Remington 700 30-06) don't see anywhere near as much time our of the vault as they used to .... as noted previously, I've owned/used them for decades and copper fouling hasn't been an issue .... I can't help but wonder if changes in the way today's firearms manufacturing lends itself to fouling .. :?: .. that said, I still haven't seen any impact in accuracy from copper fouling
I posted the comment above in this thread back in July 2018 .... with plans to take our 300 on our coming trip to South Dakota to fire at multiple gatherings, I took her out of the vault and gave here a thorough cleaning .... one that included cleaning the barrel with copper solvent .... while its certainly possible, I don't recall ever doing so before .... with muzzle velocities exceeding 3,200 fps, finding copper residue came as no shock .... saying right up front that at no time in its history has a copper buildup every affected its accuracy .... since I recently mounted a new, more powerful scope on the rifle, I figured this would be a good time to thoroughly clean the barrel .... lets just say that the dark purple patches clearly proved that there was a copper coating on the lands and grooves .... I worked on it for over two hours yesterday and finished spent another couple of hours today .... now the barrel shines and patches come out clean .... back when we purchased the rifle and sighted it in, any possible impact of copper fouling on the rifle's impact point never crossed our mind .... now I find myself wondering what, if any, influence new fouling will have
I doubt you'll see much difference at typical hunting ranges with a factory barrel. Precision ELR is where this becomes a real issue. I'd suggest spending some time on these in-depth tutorials about internal ballistics, fouling, etc., beginning at Part 34. :) These are fairly lengthy - about 15-40 minutes each so prepare thyself. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUOX0Zg ... n&index=34
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by JEBar » Tue May 28, 2019 9:25 am

10-4 on big game hunting accuracy .... I purchased the 300 back when I was deer hunting "down east" in a club that literally leased fields that were a square mile or more in size .... prior to joining that club my "reach out and touch something" rifle was a BLR 308 .... it had served me well when hunting areas were 100 yards was a long shot and most were less than 50 .... in thinking back, I wish I'd of taken advantage of the opportunity to set targets out at long ranges and fire at them .... the mods mentioned earlier include one that eliminates muzzle jump .... that allowed me to actually see the bullet hit last two deer taken with it .... back then I did didn't own a range finder and my distance judgement looking over flat fields isn't very good .... about all I can say with certainty is both were over 100 but less than 200 yards .... I don't have any need much less any expectation of single bullet hole accuracy at any distance but I'd sure like to find out how she'll perform at long ranges
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by GunnyGene » Tue May 28, 2019 10:25 am

JEBar wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:25 am
10-4 on big game hunting accuracy .... I purchased the 300 back when I was deer hunting "down east" in a club that literally leased fields that were a square mile or more in size .... prior to joining that club my "reach out and touch something" rifle was a BLR 308 .... it had served me well when hunting areas were 100 yards was a long shot and most were less than 50 .... in thinking back, I wish I'd of taken advantage of the opportunity to set targets out at long ranges and fire at them .... the mods mentioned earlier include one that eliminates muzzle jump .... that allowed me to actually see the bullet hit last two deer taken with it .... back then I did didn't own a range finder and my distance judgement looking over flat fields isn't very good .... about all I can say with certainty is both were over 100 but less than 200 yards .... I don't have any need much less any expectation of single bullet hole accuracy at any distance but I'd sure like to find out how she'll perform at long ranges
Anyone who has even limited shooting experience knows that accuracy and precision over a range of distances is all about angular spread, but new shooters often don't realize that. I've known new shooters that expect the same group size at 500 yds that they get at 50 yds until you explain it to them. :)
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by JEBar » Tue May 28, 2019 4:45 pm

GunnyGene wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:25 am
Anyone who has even limited shooting experience knows that accuracy and precision over a range of distances is all about angular spread, but new shooters often don't realize that. I've known new shooters that expect the same group size at 500 yds that they get at 50 yds until you explain it to them. :)

I'd a Coke that most shooters today seldom have an opportunity to fire at much more than 100 yards .... with the angular spread starting out small close to the muzzle and accelerating as the bullets get further and further down the line, many (if not most) shooters may never fire at distances where it really comes into play .... all else being equal, I don't see much difference in the size of my groups at 25 to 50 yards and not a great difference at 100 yards .... from there on, I've never really tested it to see
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Re: Copper Fouling

Post by GunnyGene » Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 pm

JEBar wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:45 pm
GunnyGene wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:25 am
Anyone who has even limited shooting experience knows that accuracy and precision over a range of distances is all about angular spread, but new shooters often don't realize that. I've known new shooters that expect the same group size at 500 yds that they get at 50 yds until you explain it to them. :)

I'd a Coke that most shooters today seldom have an opportunity to fire at much more than 100 yards .... with the angular spread starting out small close to the muzzle and accelerating as the bullets get further and further down the line, many (if not most) shooters may never fire at distances where it really comes into play .... all else being equal, I don't see much difference in the size of my groups at 25 to 50 yards and not a great difference at 100 yards .... from there on, I've never really tested it to see
You're right about "most" shooters, excepting those who have military training (not counting competition shooters). Of course once that bullet exits the muzzle mother nature takes over; but external ballistics is a separate subject where you start to consider things like spin drift, BC, atmospheric conditions, your latitude and elevation above MSL, and a host of other factors that come into play at ELR distances (1 mile+). :)

So you try to compensate for Mom's playfulness by tweaking everything you possibly can on your rifle system, ammo, and yourself. :)
Last edited by GunnyGene on Tue May 28, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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