What scope to see .17 holes in paper at 100 yards

[henry22]

Absolutely those larger calibers are fun, and if money was no object, and I won the lottery, I'd likely shoot 30-30 all day, or .223. I really like both of them. The KA-POW of the 30-30 is addictive. But, it always boils down to ammo cost doesn't it.

Thanks for the bino recommendation, I thought of that actually, and it would be easier to transport, and just pull out and use. I might just go do that next weekend.

Last one for the scope questions...

I have an option today to buy either:

Leupold VX2: 6-18x40mm Matte - LRVD for $729.97 CDN
minus a $100 gift card I have
$629 + our HST at 13%: $81.77
TOTAL: $711.94
OR
Nikon Monarch 3: 5-20x44 BDC SF for $599.99 CDN
minus $100 gift card
$499 + HST @ 13%: $64.87
TOTAL: $563.87

Difference of $148.07 — A big enough difference to move to the Nikon. But, for that extra $148 bucks, is the Leupold VX2 THAT much clearer, "better" glass?

And by the way, their out of stock on the Nikon 6-24X50. They do have a Leupold VX-3i, 4.5-14x40mm at $799.00 (minus $100 gift card).

If you guys had to pick the "BEST", for clarity, and the given magnification, object lens sizes etc, what would you do if putting on a .17?

[North Country Gal]

VX2s have very good optics, but if we're strictly talking optics, I'd still go with the Monarch. As for the VX3i, you will see an improvement over the VX2. The 3i is a better match for optics to the Monarch.

The one thing that I do like with the Leupolds, compared to the Nikons, is the Leupold scopes are always trimmer. Definitely prefer the way they look on a lever gun.

By the way, I MUCH prefer a scope with an AO or SF on a 17 for the sake of parallax adjustment because we shoot ours at both typical rimfire distances and centerfire distances. On a big game scope, like these, you will get a fair amount of parallax at 25 yards. Just me, though.

[henry22]

Excellent advice, I think it's the Nikon then, despite the size. It's price point is amazing for that scope right now.

Thanks again.

[henry22]

I pulled the plug yesterday on a Leupold VX2 6-18x40mm Matte - LRVD. It was on sale, from $849.99 down to $729.97, — $100 gift card I had. I sighted 4-5 different scopes, one after the other in the store, and despite what people have said about the Monarch 3 being comparable to the VX3i, I found that the VX2 was much clearer to my eye than the Monarch 3 series, with less "coloration" to the sight picture.

The first Monarch 3 I looked at (also on sale for $599) was the 5-20x44 BDC SF. I found that at 16-18 times magnification at 100 yards, spotting a stuffed wolf was easy, but when compared to the Leupold at 16-18 (full power), the Leupold was clearer overall from lowest to highest magnification. I found that the Nikon had a slight cyan or blue hue to the overall sight picture.

So I went with the Leupold. I can't believe how clear it actually is. I won't be able to spot .17 holes, but it definitely makes a 2" potato at 100 yards appear larger than my Diamondback 4-12-40 on my Henry 22 mag. I could easily spot the nose on the wolf, almost like viewing a 2" potato with my Diamondback 4-12X40 at 50-75 yards.

I think that sweet spot for X usable magnification and clarity is ideal with this scope, for what we intend to use it for. If I had more money, I would have bought the VX3i. To put things into context, I tried a Leupold VX2: 4-12x40mmAO - Matte - LRD, before and after the 6-18 model, and then back and forth, and I kept going back to the 6-18. There was a noticeable difference in 18X magnification VS 12X - and usable at that, and yet retained the same clarity.

I found the the VX2 4-12 "similar enough" in magnification/sight picture size to the Diamonback 4-12 on my Henry, but the VX2 was MUCH clearer. I should have mentioned when I first posted the other day, that this VX2 6-18X40 won't be mounted on the Henry, but on a CZ 455 Varmint, heavy barrel in .17 HMR.

[roddy]

I foresee someone burning through a lot of .17 ammo...

I have been dealing with these guys for ammo lately... https://www.theammosource.com/store/ind ... ol63fr3lg6 They seem to have the best prices in Eastern Ontario (at least as far as I have seen).

[henry22]

Hey much thanks for that Roddy. Good call. I think I lucked out, the range I belong to has extremely competitive pricing, and much better than any of the name BIG stores Cab***'s, C-Tire. — You know who who I'm referring to. Their pricing is way out of whack. I can get 200 round boxes of CCI 40 grain WMR Maxi Mag troy landry edition for $56 bucks including HST, or .27 cents per round, and the same for the CCI A17 ammo, per 200 round box.

At that "BIG" named store, 69.99 per 200 round box of WMR, and 89.99 for A17 — Absurd!

Actually, I think I might end up loading this CZ one round at a time. I've done it many times with my Henry, and actually didn't shoot as many rounds, but had way more fun trying to place them accurately.

[roddy]

That is a great price on the A17 200 box. I bought some a while back, and thought I did pretty good at $69. Try experimenting a bit with other rounds. My Savage 93R17 heavy barrel bolt gun reaaaly likes the 20 grain CCI gamepoints. All guns are different, but I have found mine shoots more consistently with the regular (2550fps) CCI Vmax 17 grain round than it does with the A17 (2650fps) ones. Just food for thought...

[henry22]

It is a great price, and now it makes no sense to buy from those other places. And the hunting store I go to - more of a mom & pop place is MUCH cooler. Better down home atmosphere, it doesn't feel like a "store". Their pricing is also really good, with a 10% membership card. And when I walk in, it always smells like G96. God I love that smell.

Interesting how different ammo performs differently in different rifles. One guy I spoke to who works at a local gun smith shop, told me that his wife's CZ 455 in .17 HMR does really well with CCI 20 grain ammo, for some reason it prefers that over .17. I just wish they made 20 grain in 200 round boxes.

My Henry 22 mag for some reason performs consistently with CCI 40 grain maxi-mag, and 40 grain Winchester Super X. I tried the 30 grain CCI V-max polymer tip a few times, I found I was nicking my potatoes, but for some reason, no direct hits. When I put in a few CCI 40 grainers, I was getting direct hits again.
Maybe I should have re-adjusted the scope? I'm still new to all this bullet behavior stuff.

One day, I'd like to put the Henry and the CZ 455 in a gun vise, on a perfectly level table, and get dead center of a bullseye at 50 yards, then 100 yards, with 3 groups of 3 per distance, per bullet weight, just to see how it behaves, with 30, 40, 50 grain. Maybe it'll give me a more intuitive sense of where to hold for each different weight. I just want whatever is the most accurate at 100 yards. But I usually just buy the 200 round boxes because it's cheaper to shoot 50-100 rounds instead of the 50 round boxes.

What I find really cool though, is where to rest the rifle. When I first shot my Henry for the first time, I was on a friend's property. He has about 150 acres. He set me up in deer stand - more like a wooden balcony, with a chair, my ammo. I put apples and potatoes on top of a huge plastic barrel filled with dirt at about 100 yards, and I was consistently hitting 2" potatoes at that range.

He said, "that's some good shootin". I didn't think so, I just thought well, "I rest the rifle on the railing over my coat, and just behind the fore-end's barrel band, hold steady, crosshairs on the potato, squeeze really gently, and KA-POW, potato dis-appears." What I thought was, what a great rifle, and how fun!

What freaks me out, is when I hit 3-4 in a row, and then don't. And I can't tell WHY I missed, and where I missed to, or by how much. And I think... what happened????

[roddy]

I have the H003TM .22 Mag pump and really like it. I have also found it to be more consistent with the 40 grain rounds. In fact, it likes the cheapest ones I can find...the federal 40 grain round nose. However, I also like to shoot stuff that flies apart...potatoes, water bottles (Wally-World, CTC, etc. usually have a 24 pack for $2-$3) and other home-brewed 'reactive' targets. I've found that the 40gr round nose bullets just pass through, while the polymer tipped 30gr ones blow stuff up...much easier to see a hit at that distance. The CCI 30gr Maxi-Mag HP+V work well too, but the point of impact is again different from either the federals, or the V-Max. I picked up a box of Aguila 40gr semi-jacketed soft point flat nose rounds yesterday...when the wind dies down, I'm looking forward to running some through the pump.

You will have to adjust for different rounds...keep experimenting and learning along the way...that's part of the fun. You could try putting a cardboard box behind the potato, and slap a splatter target sticker on the box to see your hits. I have a 3-9X40 on my .17, and can see hits at 100 yds on a Shoot-N-See reasonably well through the scope (certainly much easier than looking for .17 caliber holes).

As for picking off 3-4 in a row, then a series of misses, it could be as simple as a light breeze or change in wind direction. At 100 yds, it doesn't take much wind to blow a 17 grain bullet off course...1" on a 2" potato is a miss, right?

[henry22]

That's so funny you mentioned the Federal 40 grain round nose - lead. My Henry did really well with those too. In fact, if my memory serves me well enough, that was one of those days I hit 3-4 potatoes consistently - I was using that ammo. The missing of the potatoes was with my Henry 22 mag. I haven't even fired this CZ yet. My dad and I are supposed to test it out this weekend - wind and weather permitting.

I'm thinking maybe it would be cool to buy a bi-pod for the CZ. I do have a Caldwell rest, and it's "ok" I suppose. But it seems like flimsy construction compared to these:
http://www.edgebag.com/

http://protektormodel.com/index.php?mai ... ex&cPath=1 — These look outstanding.