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Is the 357 mag rifle

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PT7
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by PT7 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:16 am

Have to ask about this comment, because my "vast experience" of shooting larger caliber Henrys is comprised of just a few rounds shot with a .45-70! But I have shot many rounds through a Henry .357 BBB and my current BBS Carbine.

So what are the things (attributes?) a .44 can do better than a .357? It would also be interesting to learn, conversely, what things the .357 can do better, if any?
PT7
JEBar wrote:I suspect that you will be very happy with the 44 .... a 357 is great, we have one but there is nothing it can do that 44 can't do a bit better
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by Mags » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:24 am

.44 will put a bigger hole in a cast iron skillet.
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by CT_Shooter » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:40 pm

Mags wrote:.44 will put a bigger hole in a cast iron skillet.
You don't need a gun to hunt for cast iron skillets. You can just walk right up to one and strangle it.
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by JEBar » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:45 pm

PT7 wrote:So what are the things (attributes?) a .44 can do better than a .357? It would also be interesting to learn, conversely, what things the .357 can do better, if any?
PT7
while the bark is louder, the felt recoil of our Henry BBS 44 Mag isn't much different than that of our BBS 357 .... the recoil from a 44 Mag 240 gr bullet pushed by 23.8 gr of W296 is in a different universe from that of 45-70 .... in our 45-70 we load 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 pushing a 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertip with a muzzle velocity of 2242.5 fps developing 3349.2 ft lbs of energy .... its recoil is punishing .... move up to 400+ gr bullets and it gets even worse

as to specifics about what a 44 does better >>>> the trajectory of the 44 is slightly flatter that that of the 357 while delivering significantly more knockdown power at every point along the way .... here again, its performance is in a different universe .... specifically :

44 Mag ... Nosler 240 gr JHP
DISTANCE/TRAJECTORY/ENERGY

25 yards / +.6" / 1427.1 ft lbs

50 yards / +2" / 1266.2 ft lbs

75 yards / +2.4" / 1123.5 ft lbs

100 yards / +1.8" / 998.4 ft lbs

125 yards / 0.0 / 890.1 ft lbs

150 yards / -3.1" / 797.8 ft lbs


357 Mag .... Nolser 158 gr JHP
DISTANCE/TRAJECTORY/ENERGY

25 yards / +1.1" / 753.8 ft lbs

50 yards / +2.6" / 673.5 ft lbs

75 yards / +3.1" / 603.3 ft lbs

100 yards / +2.2" / 542.8 ft lbs

125 yards / 0.0 / 491.6 ft lbs

150 yards / -3.8" / 449.1 ft lbs


the info on which the above stats were generated are taken directly from Nosler's reloading manual
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by Mags » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:46 pm

CT_Shooter wrote:
Mags wrote:.44 will put a bigger hole in a cast iron skillet.
You don't need a gun to hunt for cast iron skillets. You can just walk right up to one and strangle it.
Sure, but it's more fun and impressive to put a hole in them with a .44. Little big though for a bacon grease drain.
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by PT7 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:25 pm

Appreciate this info, Jim. Answered my Qs just fine.

The. .44 ---> .357
~~~louder bark
~~~close/similar felt recoil
~~~flatter trajectory
~~~"significantly more knockdown power at every point along the way"

That Nosler comparison chart really made it clear on the "different universe." I know that since I don't reload, I'd never have seen that data, and probably wouldn't know how to get it. Thanks for bringing some new knowledge my way today. ;)

The other "surprise" was your recoil info explaining the difference between the .44 and .45-70; especially your description about it being "punishing recoil." As that comes with the territory of a larger caliber, I guess a person simply makes his/her choice of what pain might accompany better performance, and whether or not to go for it.

Finally, I noticed in your comments there is not listed any significant factor in which the .357 does better than the .44. Quite interesting. But if I were to shoot a .45-70 with ammo as you described, the less recoil pain would be a plus to having the .357 caliber. I notice no pain whatsoever when shooting my .357 Carbine! :)

PT7
JEBar wrote: while the bark is louder, the felt recoil of our Henry BBS 44 Mag isn't much different than that of our BBS 357 .... the recoil from a 44 Mag 240 gr bullet pushed by 23.8 gr of W296 is in a different universe from that of 45-70 .... in our 45-70 we load 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 pushing a 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertip with a muzzle velocity of 2242.5 fps developing 3349.2 ft lbs of energy .... its recoil is punishing .... move up to 400+ gr bullets and it gets even worse

as to specifics about what a 44 does better >>>> the trajectory of the 44 is slightly flatter that that of the 357 which delivers significantly more knockdown power at every point along the way .... here again, its performance is in a different universe ....

the info on which the stats were generated are taken directly from Nosler's reloading manual
PT7 wrote:So what are the things (attributes?) a .44 can do better than a .357? It would also be interesting to learn, conversely, what things the .357 can do better, if any?
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by CT_Shooter » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm

Mags wrote:
Sure, but it's more fun and impressive to put a hole in them with a .44.
That would be more fun and a very, very impressive demonstration of the power of the caliber. I'd love to see a photo of a hole made by a .44 special or .44 magnum in a cast iron skillet -- even in a little skillet would be so cool. We love photos. Thanks. :)
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by JEBar » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:57 pm

PT7 wrote:Finally, I noticed in your comments there is not listed any significant factor in which the .357 does better than the .44. Quite interesting. But if I were to shoot a .45-70 with ammo as you described, the less recoil pain would be a plus to having the .357 caliber. I notice no pain whatsoever when shooting my .357 Carbine! :)

there most certainly are positives for a 357 ... first, its cheaper to fire .... while factory 44 Mag ammo isn't scarce, in many places we have been there have been larger inventories and varieties of 357 on shelves .... while not the case with a Henry BBS, most 357 firearms seem to be lighter than corresponding ones chambered in 44 Mag .... full power handgun felt recoil is less ....

as to 45-70, the pictures below show the 45-70 round next to a 44 Mag .... they really don't tell the full story because you can't get a feel for the weights .... for folks who want a 45-70 without having to suffer the full force of its out of the box recoil, there are things that can help .... there is always the option to fire Cowboy Action level ammo .... in addition, felt recoil can be reduced by upgrading the recoil pad, installing a recoil suppressor, and porting the barrel .... that package really tames it down
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by Mags » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:04 pm

CT_Shooter wrote:
Mags wrote:Sure, but it's more fun and impressive to put a hole in them with a .44.
That would be more fun and a very, very impressive demonstration of the power of the caliber. I'd love to see a photo of a hole made by a .44 special or .44 magnum in a cast iron skillet -- even in a little skillet would be so cool. We love photos. Thanks. :)
Well don't have picture of a .44, but did a screen grab of this one. 9mm bottom, 40 cal upper left and .45 to the right.
skillet.JPG
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Re: Is the 357 mag rifle

Post by Rifletom » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:42 am

Redthies wrote:
North Country Gal wrote:Henry carbines are heavier, so recoil is probably not much of a factor, but I do know from a lot of experience that in the lighter Marlin 1894 carbines, there is a pronounced difference in recoil between the 357 and the 44 mag. My 357 Marlin 1894 is much easier to manage than the 44s I've had. The 44s are gone, now, but our Marlin 357 is now a never sell category gun.
I was looking for a .357 lever gun, and the only one I found was a Winchester take-down that was out of my budget (double), so I started looking at Marlin .44s, and thought recoil might be more than I wanted since I injured my shoulder last year with a hasty 12 gauge shot. The Ruger I stumbled on is a semi auto so felt recoil should be less than the lever .44. It’s definitely MORE than the .357 Rossi I’ve shot. The best part about this is now I have an excuse to buy a CCH BigBoy Carbine in .357, assuming I can get it passed the next time the acquisitions committee meets...
That acquisitions meets...........wife? :shock:
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