Acceptable Accuracy

[JEBar]

on various forums I often see threads addressing anticipated accuracy/grouping from various rifles .... leaving the ability of the shooter completely out of the equation, many folks seem to expect an out of the box, mass produced hunting rifle to be capable of pinpoint accuracy .... while I would expect that our of a high dollar, long range, precision competition rifle, I don't expect a production hunting rifle to be capable of firing interlocking groups at 100 or more yards .... for me the question becomes, at 100 yards what size group is acceptable for a hunting rifle .... 1", 2", 3", 4" or more ????

[Bugs]

I'm thinking under 2 inches but am curious to see what others think.

[Henry88]

I think in a hunting situation, the ability of the shooter so outweighs the accuracy of the rifle, the point is moot.

But otherwise, I agree with Bugs.

[ditto1958]

I think most modern hunting rifles are inherently very accurate. So, what determines whether a particular shooter gets 2" groups or cloverleaf groups? Well, a combination of factors. The shooter's skill, the trigger, the ammo used, how well the stock fits the shooter, how steady the shooter's setup is.

[Les]

I'm a bit of an accuracy nut, but I'd like to think that I'm also realistic.

If I was looking for 1/4 MOA accuracy, I wouldn't be using a H001 or H003. I'd reach for a target rifle. Anything around 1-2" from a hunting rifle is probably acceptable, especially for plinking, although I wouldn't shoot live game with it at much over 100 yards.

I've yet to shoot my H003 at 100 yards, so I don't know what the accuracy is like, but I would be very happy if it was grouping at less than 2". As far as I'm concerned, the H001 & H003 etc rifles are 'fun' guns, not competition winners. That's the reason I bought it, and I'm more than happy with it.

[Sir Henry]

Last summer I did a comparison between a 452 CZ and a Henry H001. The CZ shot circles around the Henry bench rest but offhand rapid fire the Henry won. The rapid fire was a hit or miss count and as long as I hit the bulls eye somewhere it counted.

[JEBar]

I've been doing some thinking about this since starting this thread .... one thing that I haven't considered is the side of the bullet hole .... below you can see three different targets showing groups fired out of our 45-70 at 75 to 80 yards .... in each case there is at least one flyer and that can be chalked up to me .... seeing 45 caliber holes in a target is a very different picture from seeing 20 to 30 caliber holes .... the rifle is clearly capable of firing closer groups than this shooter .... even though some are over 2" I'm very comfortable with it as a big game hunting rifle ....

[North Country Gal]

That, pardon the pun, is a very loaded question. First, how do you define "good" accuracy? There's a lot more to that than most people realize and I think this goes double for a hunting gun. To me, it's much more than just group size.

First, accuracy based on how many shots per group? I can take any rifle, even most lever guns, and get it to shoot at least one, one inch group at 100 yards during a range session, just by playing with ammo and hold a bit. Sooner or later, you can get that just as a matter of odds with three consecutive shots. Have done it many times. Manufacturers know this and some are only to happy to cover their rifles with a 3 shot MOA accuracy guarantee. It's essentially meaningless. Five consecutive shots at an inch are much harder to do by coincidence. Ten, much, much harder.

What about group shape? Which is better, a round concentric group or a smaller more liner group? Which is better, consistent, though larger groups and no flyers or smaller groups with an occasional flyer (caused by the gun, not the shooter)? Trust me, a gun that shoots great groups but that has a tendency to throw one way off is a real headache and problem to solve. I'll take the consistent shooter any day.

Here's an easy one. Have had some rifles that absolutely couldn't shoot a good group until the barrel warmed up a bit. Even worse, that first shot from a cold barrel shot to a much different point of aim and never consistently to the same point of aim for a first shot. The rifle was very accurate when warmed up, though. Is that a gun you want to take hunting? Not me. That rifle that shoots to the same POI with a cold barrel, every time, regardless of conditions, is gold for hunting, regardless of what size groups it prints with follow up shots.

One more and I'll shut up. Some guns a very rest sensitive and do not like being snugged down on a rest. Lever guns and carbines can be especially sensitive in this regard. Have had some that just hated being directly on a bag. The accuracy results of shooting them this way can be very misleading. Have actually had some that shot smaller groups with the gun pulled up off the rest and, more importantly, they shot to a different POI when doing so. Unless you plan to take a bag with you out in the field when shooting that Henry, Marlin or Winchester, you might want to do a little work using the actual positions you'll be using out in the field.

And all of this is just part of the gun side of things. There's more. The shooter side of accuracy gets even more complicated and unreliable.

[North Country Gal]

I'll kick in one more. Much of this obsession with big game hunting rifles needing to shoot MOA or sub MOA is internet myth and nonsense. In Jack O'Conner's day (I grew up in that period), a good bolt gun that could shoot three shots under two inches was considered perfectly adequate, if not good, for big game hunting. Inch and a half was very good. Most of his rifles were stock Model 70 Winchesters in various calibers, including his well known 270s. Those were the days of writers who were actually hunters, not range rats who sat at a bench all day shooting for group size.

When scoped, most Marlins and Winchester 30-30s I've shot have been able to two to two and a half inches or less for 5 shots at 100 yards, some even closer to an inch and do it on a regular basis with the ammo the gun liked. That's still way more than is needed for typical lever gun distances, but I have to believe Henrys could do the same.

[Steve51]

I have old eyes and my center fire rifles have iron sights. I zero them in at 50yds. To check them out, I put a 3 in diameter orange stick on circle on a sheet of white paper at 50 yds. I then shoot ten rounds at it. If 7 or more bullets hit the orange circle, I consider it good. I have a 1/16" gold bead front sight and it almost completely covers the 3" circle at 50yds.
I just checked the zero on my BBS .357 yesterday. Had 9 out of 10 in the orange with 158 grain Hornady XTP JHP bullets. The Hornady XTP's have been the most accurate for me in my BBS .357 and also in my BB .44
I seldom need to take a shot past 75 yds.