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With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

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With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by PT7 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:53 pm

I'm posting this thread partially because in another thread by TNman, he posted a photo of his hunting knife, which seemed to closely resemble one I've been researching to buy. TNman has a Norwegian-made Helle Folkekniven. I'm considering a hand-forged Siberian Yakut / Evenki blade. It's been a fun comparing these two blades, and finding how similar they are. Since TNman has so well used his blade for dressing out deer, that encouraged me that the configuration of the Siberian knife would be suitable for the same work. I'm also planning to hunt rabbits with my 1864 Russian this coming winter, and this knife would work fine for any harvest I might gather then. So here's a look at my comparison, for anyone interested (especially knife knuts on our Forum!). :)


TNman's Folkekniven

Check out TNman's photos on his original Henry thread, pages 2 & 3, at link: http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=10

Folkekniven specs (current knife model on the Helle web site)

~~~Blade material: Sandvik 12C27 stainless steel
~~~Blade thickness: 3 mm
~~~Blade length: 88 mm
~~~Handle material: Curly birch
~~~Handle length: 105 mm
~~~Sheath material: Genuine leather

PT7's look at the Yakut / Evenki
flat fuller side.jpg
non-fuller side.jpg
Yakut / Evenki specs

~~~Blade material: SAE52100 steel, hand forged high carbon content
~~~Blade thickness: 5 mm
~~~Blade length: 114 mm
~~~Handle material: Native maple burl hardwood, fully round handle
~~~Handle length: 114 mm
~~~Sheath material: Genuine leather treated with beeswax and oil

Some comments about the Yakut / Evenki. I've not seen a hand-forged knife design like this before. What is most interesting is the how the blade was forged. Here is a brief description from the web site:
The blade of a Yakut knife is sharpened asymmetrically. One side of the blade is flat and has a small groove (fuller) that increases its durability, while also reducing its weight. The other side of the blade has a slightly curved shape. This feature prevents the knife from digging into the material during cutting. Therefore, left-handed and right-handed blades have to be a mirror images of each other, otherwise working with them will be uncomfortable for left and right handed users respectively. The Concave/Convex geometry of the Yakut blade leads to very low surface contact with the material being cut, and thus extremely low resistance.

The other important characteristic of the Yakut blade is that it is easier to keep sharp because it requires only one-side sharpening. You save 50% of the effort because you only sharpen the concave (flat) side. Secondly, when sharpening, you don't have to try to hit the same angle, over and over, like with the conventional knife. You lay the Siberian blade flat on the fuller side, and sharpen by sliding the blade bottom to top, thus hitting the same angle all the time. And if your knife is forged from a high carbon content steel, that edge you create will be held a lot longer.


In a demo video I've seen by a Canadian, this blade does quite well for wood carving, as well as regular outdoor use for harvest prep after the hunt, cleaning fish, campsite needs, etc.

Thinking about adding this different knife design to my small collection. Especially like the shape and looks of the wood handle. At the same time, I've found articles that state hand-forged tools like this knife (and also axes) are considered to be historical pieces of ethnic art in the Siberian tradition. So my final comment & thought is that the Yakut / Evenki just might be the perfect companion to my 1864 Russian top break revolver! ;)
PT7

PT7 wrote:I appreciate the info on your knife, TNman. I've not before heard of Helle knives. Pulled up the home web page and then found your knife there. Looks like some good reading ahead for me.

Th Helle current specs, plus some of the other knife descriptions, are quite close to the specs I have on the new blade I'm considering. So that has given me a fun project and a segue to posting some info on my potential knife purchase. Here is what I'm going to do.

I'll keep your info from this thread, read up some more on the Helle, then add specs/description of the blade I'd like to get in another thread in our Knife forum. For me, I'll have a good comparison of your Norwegian-made knife, and the hand-forged traditional Siberian Yakut / Evenki knife I may get. PT7
TNman wrote:Hey PT7, The knife is a Helle Eggen a sort of entry level Helle. I’ve had it for about 15 yr and have field dressed several dozen whitetails with it I reckon. The blade on mine is 3.5” long but the current ones are about 4” long it seems. It has the typical scandinavian edge grind and is made of laminated steel...a very hard central layer sandwiched between SS steel outer layers. It is dangerously sharp and easy to touch up with a good ceramic rod or stone. The handle is generous for a good firm secure grip; I added the diagonal grooves for a better grip. …. Helle makes a lot of different model knives and I give them my highest recommendation for a good working/hunting knife...but use with care.
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by ESquared » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:31 pm

Nice research and a very esoteric find, PT! Great combination of art and science, isn't it?
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by PT7 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:07 pm

"Esoteric" is spot-on, ESquared.
I am certain we'd never start a Yakut-owners sub-forum here no matter how many folk are knuts for knives :!: :lol: :!:

What I like best about this knife is the art, history, and craftsmanship behind their creation. And the fact that it is really close to my own Slavic heritage. The tools are there just as representation of what I enjoy because of these aspects. I have watched any number of videos where these Siberian/Yakut craftsmen (forgers) make one of these from scratch to finish...all without modern technology.

Fascinating.
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ESquared wrote:Nice research and a very esoteric find, PT! Great combination of art and science, isn't it?
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by ESquared » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:57 pm

It really is fascinating, when you consider the knife was one of the first man-made tools that's still universally used today. Maybe the only one, for all I know. Arrowheads, too (although "universally used" might be debated)? Spears, axes, not so much, either.

Knives and wheels.

Mankind has had a long, long time to perfect those two concepts...
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by TNman » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:04 am

That Yakut is a very interesting design with a colorful tradition and history. I think it would be a perfect companion for you and your Russian. These no nonsense traditional working knives are practical and effective in many roles. Excellent equipment makes any endeavor that much more efficient and enjoyable. When is it arriving? Lol...
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by PT7 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:36 am

Ah....."When is it arriving?"

Thanks for asking, TNman, and for your comments about the Yahut! Here is the notification I received.
"We're getting your order ready to be shipped. We will notify you when it has been sent." Siberian Forged Knives
When I processed the shipping info, I read that an order should take 5-8 business days for delivery. Sounds fine to me, and I'm sure it will make it here before either hunting season opens! :D

I did make one adjustment though, and selected another style of the Yakut / Evenki blade. All specs about the same except for additional natural materials in the grip. The handle I ordered is Maple burl wood. It has a Siberian Mountain Goat Antler bolster, and in the middle of the wood grip is a Siberian Mammoth Tooth insert. Both add absolutely unique textures and colors against the maple burl wood. I'd say an example of modern knife equivalency might be brass or nickel ring spacers inserted in a Micarta handle....that adds color and a pattern to the handle. The difference in the Siberian knife inserts is that there is less symmetry being totally dependent on the shape of the antler and the tooth. I'd hazard a safe guess that this forged knife handle is definitely one-of-a-kind!

Thanks for the knife chats that have happened in our couple of threads....appreciate the interest. I plan to take some photos of the 1864 Russian and Siberian knife together, and will post them in a new Forum thread. Just need to polish my camera lens! ;)
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TNman wrote:That Yakut is a very interesting design with a colorful tradition and history. I think it would be a perfect companion for you and your Russian. These no nonsense traditional working knives are practical and effective in many roles. Excellent equipment makes any endeavor that much more efficient and enjoyable. When is it arriving? Lol...
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by PT7 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:54 am

At last! The build of my Siberian hand-forged Yakut knife is completed. The Forger contacted me today to ask me to review his final photos and get my approval; the knife and sheath looked even better than I expected. So I emailed back -- "Let's do it!" :D

And then this evening I got the notification and tracking number. First time I'll be getting a shipment from Canada. It is coming from Gatineau, QC and scheduled for delivery on 9/11.

So I get to do one more photo shoot, and write more of what I've learned about the actual forging, and about the materials that went into it -- particularly the inserts in the handle. I'll start a new thread next month on it.

:D PT7 :D

TNman wrote: From the "Morakniv Eldris" thread….Did you get your Yakut yet....it is an interesting design that does seem to have evolved from sharpened bones in the beginning before steel was available. I could see myself ‘needing’ one of those..lol.
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Re: With the 1864 Russian, a Siberian hand-forged knife

Post by TNman » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:13 pm

Super!
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