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Kitchen knives

Any and all knives or other edged things. Special preference for BUCK knives
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dave77
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by dave77 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:24 pm

I went ahead and ordered this and also their paring knife, was going to get their cheaper model but for $20 more this one is VG-10 steel which apparently is one of the best kitchen steels.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y1FHGPB/re ... 785e22d3f3

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y24M7QP/re ... 2d3f3&th=1

https://knifeup.com/what-is-vg-10-steel/
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by dave77 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:10 pm

Supposed to be here Saturday, I'll post some photos and my impressions. I did notice that one article says VG-10 can be kind of brittle due to the higher carbon content so I'll be sure to use one of my other knives for cutting anything with bones.

I've got a decent steel rod and a smaller ceramic rod for honing. Any suggestions for a good water stone? I was looking at this one on Amazon, it has good reviews. It would be nice to get a couple of the high end natural stones but don't really want to speed that much.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZZUL30/?c ... _lig_dp_it
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by JEBar » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:10 pm

dave77 wrote:Any suggestions for a good water stone? I was looking at this one on Amazon, it has good reviews

I've been using a Smith's 50008 8-Inch Diamond Tri-Hone Bench Stone of the last couple of years .... it is the finest set of sharpening stones I've used .... so much so that I gave each of our sons one for Christmas .... the diamond stones do a good job working with Buck's hardest S30V steel

[b]https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-50008- ... i-Hone[/b]
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by clovishound » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:29 pm

dave77 wrote:Supposed to be here Saturday, I'll post some photos and my impressions. I did notice that one article says VG-10 can be kind of brittle due to the higher carbon content so I'll be sure to use one of my other knives for cutting anything with bones.

I've got a decent steel rod and a smaller ceramic rod for honing. Any suggestions for a good water stone? I was looking at this one on Amazon, it has good reviews. It would be nice to get a couple of the high end natural stones but don't really want to speed that much.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZZUL30/?c ... _lig_dp_it
I've never used waterstones before, but I understand that they can be somewhat troublesome. They need to be soaked thoroughly before each use, and have to be flattened periodically. You must also build up a slurry during the sharpening process. Lots of folks think that waterstones are the cat's meow for sharpening, but a lot seem to have issues with them.

For knives, I prefer a diamond plate. A set of 2 or 3 grits is nice, but if you have your knife in good shape, and never let it get too badly out of shape, a single fine plate does a good job IMO. I'm not wild about diamond plates for plane irons and wood chisels, but they are great for knives. As has been mentioned before, a steel does a good job of maintaining the edge in between sharpenings. I tend to prefer the solid plates vs the ones with the oval holes in the plate. For knives it is less of an issue, but for smaller items the holes make registering the bevel on the surface difficult. Diamond plates can be used dry, or with water. I use water and a little bit of detergent. No soaking, just wet the surface and put a small dot of dish detergent on it. They tend to cut very aggressively when new, but quickly settle down to a less aggressive, finer cut after knocking off the high tops of the embedded diamonds. They last a very long time with just a little care.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by dave77 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Too many options, I'm happy with the results I get with my WorkSharp on my other knives but don't want to use it on these new knifes. The new knives are ground at 12 degrees and that's not an option with the WorkSharp. If I do get some stones (water or diamond) I saw these on Amazon, looks like they would really help to keep the right angle when sharpening.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N4QMO7U/?c ... ZC7N&psc=0

Shouldn't have to worry about sharpening them for some time if I hone them regularly, Zelite recommends using a King 1000/6000 whetstone.

Also, there is a retired contractor/lumberyard owner just down the road that has a sharpening business, I think I'll see what he thinks of sharpening it. He's a good guy, gave me lots of good advice for misc. projects when he had his lumber yard.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by clovishound » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:47 am

When I sharpen plane irons and chisels, I sometimes use a guide, and sometimes freehand them. When you freehand, you will get a somewhat rounded bevel. What you end up with is, in effect, a micro bevel. Some folks intentionally use micro bevels with sharpening guides. They occasionally sharpen to a given bevel angle, say 30 degrees. This takes more time than a simple touch up sharpen. After getting the entire bevel to 30 degrees, they will set the guide to a couple degrees steeper angle and just use a few strokes. Since they are only taking off steel from a very small area, it is quite easy to get the micro bevel sharp. When the micro bevel gets too long, they redo the entire bevel. Free hand sharpening tends to do the same thing, only not as precisely. I don't think a rounded bevel is a bad thing.

I doubt the angle guides you linked to will keep the knife locked into a precise angle. They will obviously help, vs just eyeballing it every time, but with a little practice, one can get pretty consistent.

Here is one sold by Lee Valley, that will really help keep the angle consistent.

Image

They are not expensive. Here is the link: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... at=1,43072

Lee Valley sells good quality, often innovative tools. Their April fool's tools are a hoot.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by dave77 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:24 am

Interesting tool, I may order one. Would it only work with their stone and holder? It seems to me that a stone at a different height would change the angle but I may not be visualizing it correctly.

Yes, the guides I linked to don't hold the blade, they just help you start your stroke at the correct angle.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by BigAl52 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:34 am

I have quite a few of the Henkel knives for the kitchen that we bought from time to time at Bed Bath and Beyond. They really hold a good edge and my wife really likes them. She likes them even better when I get at it with the sharpener. In the meantime we have bought several sets of ceramic knives. Im impressed at how well they work especially for slicing tomatoes and other similar veggies. When used for slicing the harder items like cheese one wants to be real careful as the knife can break if you move them around to much while slicing.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by Mags » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Our Henkel knives won't hold an edge anymore. Every other use need to be sharpened.
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Re: Kitchen knives

Post by clovishound » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:15 pm

dave77 wrote:Interesting tool, I may order one. Would it only work with their stone and holder? It seems to me that a stone at a different height would change the angle but I may not be visualizing it correctly.

Yes, the guides I linked to don't hold the blade, they just help you start your stroke at the correct angle.
I looks like it is designed to work with the sharpening media within a certain distance from the counter/bench top. The angle is adjustable, so it should work within a range of distances. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used with a variety of mediums. Worst case scenario is you would have to put something under the medium to raise it's height, or something on the counter to raise the surface the guide rides on. You would have to use something as a guide to get the angle right the first time. Within reason, I don't think the exact angle is that important. Consistency is the key. For example, if you have the bevel honed to, say 15 degrees, and then next time you have it set to 12 degrees, you will have to remove a lot of material to get the bevel to intersect the edge. Of course, if you go the other direction, from shallow to steep, you have to remove very little. In that case, you will have a micro bevel, unless you decide to rework the entire bevel, which is a waste of time and steel. Keeping the same each time is the key to saving time and steel.

This was one of the first sharpening jigs I ran across and posted it just to give you an idea of what was out there. A search on the internet might show up a different design that might suite your needs better. I have seen a few that are incorporated into a complete system.

I did another quick search, and it looks like this sharpening guide is actually made by DMT. They make quality diamond plates, and so this guide was likely designed with that in mind, but the design makes it likely to be versatile. Here is a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT- ... e-P11.aspx

They also have other sharpening supplies, such as DMT diamond plates, and one or two other sharpening guides and systems.

Most woodworking tools are a little simpler, in that they usually have a single bevel. With a knife you have a double bevel. With a single bevel, angles are usually in the 20-30 degree range. With a double bevel, the angle is cut in half, but since there are two bevels, the actual cutting angle is the same. For example, an 11 degree bevel on each side of the knife adds up to a 22 degree cutting angle. Knives typically have shallower angles than woodworking tools. A 22 degree angle would be considered quite shallow for a plane or chisel. A shallow angle gives a sharper edge, but it is more prone to damage in use. A steeper angle is more durable, but less sharp. Like most things in life, it's a trade off.
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