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muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

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tarbe
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by tarbe » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:02 pm

When I am shooting a heavy kicker off the bench (my heavy is a .470 Nitro Express and my semi-heavy is a 450-400 Nitro Express) I make sure I am as upright as possible so my upper body can move with the recoil.

With the .470, I even cheat and put a dense, 3/8" closed-cell foam pad (from a sleeping pad) between the recoil pad and my shoulder!

Mostly, it just takes some time and familiarity to get you used to the pounding. My 45-70 honestly feels like a 223 after shooting the .470.
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JEBar
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:01 pm

tarbe wrote:My 45-70 honestly feels like a 223 after shooting the .470.

that being the case, reading about it on the forum is about as close as I want to come to a .470 .. :?
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Travlin
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Travlin » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:19 pm

What about using a Past recoil shield that straps to your shoulder?
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Dadio63
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Dadio63 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:25 pm

Pitchman1968 wrote: OT 405 gr bullet seated to an COAL of 2.580"
with the bullets just toucging th rifleing. Results at 100 yard benchrest shooting: Velocity - 1475 fps, 2 - 3' groups.

2.580” COAL? All the manuals I have read give a COAL of 2.540”. I wonder if there is a chamber difference between your Marlin and the Henry, or if there is a way to measure to get the round to the exact length to have a slight jump before it engages the rifling. I have been lead to understand ( by a former Marine sniper) that having the projectile touching the lands and grooves before firing can result in an over pressure condition.

I’m sure there is a gauge or measurement tool that will allow for that type of precise measurement, I’m just not sure what it’s called ( headspace gauge?), as all the long range precision shooters must be loading their rounds to such an exacting standard.

Thanks for the reloading formula. I’ve been using powder coated 405g RNFP. Have not used gas checks ( would not know how to install them anyway).
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Ojaileveraction
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Ojaileveraction » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:33 pm

dadio said
I’m sure there is a gauge or measurement tool that will allow for that type of precise measurement, I’m just not sure what it’s called ( headspace gauge?), as all the long range precision shooters must be loading their rounds to such an exacting standard.


A Hornady LocknLoad Overall Length Gauge, in combination with a Honady Modified 45-70 case will get you there.

Still needs to cycle in and out of the action.
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North Country Gal
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by North Country Gal » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:55 am

Travlin wrote:What about using a Past recoil shield that straps to your shoulder?
I've used those. They work, well, for shooting offhand, but they tend to get mangled and squashed when you tuck in and try to shoot a gun from a rest. Not too comfy and a bit awkward at the bench for me. My solution when shooting from the bench with the heavy kickers was to use a sissy bag - a small sand bag - between the buttstock and my shoulder. The cheap rubber slip on pads work well, too. I just slip them on during a range session then remove them when I get home.
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tarbe
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by tarbe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:47 pm

Dadio63 wrote:
Pitchman1968 wrote: I wonder if there is a chamber difference between your Marlin and the Henry, or if there is a way to measure to get the round to the exact length to have a slight jump before it engages the rifling.
The old-school/hillbilly way is to take a fired case and mash the mouth out of round enough so that a bullet can be started by hand, but is held somewhat firmly. Leave the bullet just started in the case (ie: seated well out). Measure the OAL and record.

Then carefully chamber the round, allowing the origin of the rifling to engage the bullet and push it into the case.

Then VERY slowly and carefully extract the round and measure the OAL. If the OAL has not changed, then your bullet is too short to reach the rifling.

If the bullet was pushed in, the new OAL is the max to the rifling and your actual best OAL can now be found using the max as a basis.

Some rifle/cartridge/bullet combos shoot best as far as 50 thousandths off the lands (Barnes X bullets typically shoot best well off the lands) and some shoot best right up into the rifling.

You will always be starting low on the powder, so seating into the lands is not an issue if you follow proper load development protocol. As mentioned, you don't want to use what would otherwise be a max load and then arbitrarily seat the bullet out into the lands.

Using this technique you must not have too firm a grip on the bullet or the rifling might engrave the bullet such that you pull out an empty case.

Too light a grip and the bullet moves through handling, messing up your result.

Good luck!


Tim
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USMC 1976 - 1980 0351

Henry H010
Henry H010CC
Savage M99 308 (born in '57 like me!)
Browning M53 32-20
336 30-30
No 1 300 H&H
No 1 375 H&H
1895 30-40 Krag
Ruger American 308
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:16 pm

tarbe wrote:The old-school/hillbilly way is to take a fired case and mash the mouth out of round enough so that a bullet can be started by hand, but is held somewhat firmly. Leave the bullet just started in the case (ie: seated well out). Measure the OAL and record.

Tim
you mean there's any other way ... :?: :? :?:
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tarbe
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by tarbe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:18 pm

JEBar wrote:
tarbe wrote:The old-school/hillbilly way is to take a fired case and mash the mouth out of round enough so that a bullet can be started by hand, but is held somewhat firmly. Leave the bullet just started in the case (ie: seated well out). Measure the OAL and record.

Tim
you mean there's any other way ... :?: :? :?:

Haha...well, not any other way for me!

I have been using this method since the 70s and I won't be springing the cash for a Stoney Point OAL gauge anytime soon.

For better or for worse, I started handloading when I was a kid making due with lawn-cutting money so I had to find the cheap ways. :ugeek:
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USMC 1976 - 1980 0351

Henry H010
Henry H010CC
Savage M99 308 (born in '57 like me!)
Browning M53 32-20
336 30-30
No 1 300 H&H
No 1 375 H&H
1895 30-40 Krag
Ruger American 308
Several Nasty Black Rifles :o

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JEBar
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:32 pm

tarbe wrote: I have been using this method since the 70s and I won't be springing the cash for a Stoney Point OAL gauge anytime soon.

For better or for worse, I started handloading when I was a kid making due with lawn-cutting money so I had to find the cheap ways. :ugeek:

understood .... I started back in the mid 60's .... just curious, are you located near Houston .. :?: .. we spend our winters in Texas, much of the time at Lake Conroe, just north of Houston .... a few of us from this forum try to get together and do some shooting at places like the Blackwood Gun Club ===> http://blackwoodgunclub.com/
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