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muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

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BigAl52
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by BigAl52 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:27 pm

I did some Youtube research on the 45-70 Henry before I bought mine. As I said I love the brass and have several brass big boys in pistol calibers. But when I went for the king I chose the CCH. And I really like the CCH also they look really good. But me and that recoil pad on my 45-70 have become close friends . Al
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Dadio63
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Dadio63 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:15 pm

Greetings All,
I think I have found a good powder/projectile combination that works for me, and one I hope will help me fill the freezer with meat.

At the range today I tried my newest hand loads. Of the 4 new loads tested, one was unmanageable (for me) due to excessive recoil. I only fired three of those off, and got scope bit twice. The remainder of those rounds will be disassembled and reloaded to my new favorite.

The loads in order of preference were:

1.) 30g IMR 4198, 405g LRNFP (Missouri Bullet Company, #1 Buffalo).
This round produced the easiest to handle recoil, while shooting three groups of three rounds each:
1.) 2 3/8” diameter group
2.) 1 7/8” diameter group, and
3.) 1 7/8” diameter group.
Target was posted at 100 yards. Shooting from a rest with bags, 3-9x 40mm scope. Estimated muzzle velocity was 1370 FPS. ( not verified in the field, taken from the Hogden page, Trapdoor loads, “The Complete Reloading Manual for the 45-70 Government”)
30g IMR 4198, 405g LRNFP, 100yds, 1370 FPS.
30g IMR 4198, 405g LRNFP, 100yds, 1370 FPS.
B874175A-BA74-41AF-82F7-686BD9BBA036.jpeg (236.14 KiB) Viewed 2745 times
The next load shot a looser group, wasn’t able to keep it together, although the recoil was not too bad:
32g IMR 4198, 405g RNFP. Estimated (from manual) muzzle velocity of 1462 FPS.

The third load shot a decent group, 4 rounds in a 2 3/8” circle.
40g H4895, 405g LRNFP. Estimated (from the manual) muzzle velocity of 1424 FPS. Recoil was not too bad here either.

The fourth load was a problem:
48g H4895, 405g LRNFP. Estimated (from the manual) muzzle velocity of 1645 FPS. I will NOT be using this load again.

I also received on Saturday my ShockEater recoil pad and shirts.
https://gampsports.com/product/shockeater-recoil-pad/

For those out there looking for a little relief, this was a big help. The pad fits into a pocket inside the shirt. No more walking around the range with a harness and pad strapped to your torso.

I removed the temporary Limbsaver slip on recoil pad I had used previously, and just shot with the ShockEater and brass butt plate. This shortened my exaggerated length of pull to where it should be (the ShockEater is thin, maybe less than 1/4” thick)

Any opinions out there concerning my new load, 30g powder, 405g LRNFP, 1370 FPS being used as a hunting round?

With more practice, I think I can tighten my groups up to get a predictable point of aim, point of impact.
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:12 pm

Dadio63 wrote:I think I have found a good powder/projectile combination that works for me, and one I hope will help me fill the freezer with meat.

Any opinions out there concerning my new load, 30g powder, 405g LRNFP, 1370 FPS being used as a hunting round?

not surprised at your findings, it should be one heck of a hunting round ..... as noted in the link in my first comment in this thread, HSM's Cowboy Action ammo with 405 gr - Round Nose Flat Point bullets - with a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps - delivering 1520 ft lbs of energy have proven to be extremely accurate in our Henry 45-70 .... I'm getting ready to work on a similar load using 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertips .... if I can come up with an accurate load developing 1300 to 1400 fps, it should have an even lighter recoil
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Ojaileveraction » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm

Good shooting dadio.
Your favorite load is one of my favorites also.
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Dadio63 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:48 pm

JEBar,
I based my search for a powder/projectile combination based on your recommendation!

I found a comparable load in the manual, checked the HSM Cowboy Action load specs and found they were very, very close so went with the manual load ( lightest load in the Trapdoor category on that page).

Now we just have to develop our shooting skills to meet the rifle and rounds capability...I do not want to be the “weak link” in this equation.

Thanks for your help and input!
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JEBar
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:01 am

kind words appreciated, happy to be of some assistance .... the fact is, in the real world most of us are the weak link and, as you note, its up to us to strengthen that link as much as is possible ....
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by North Country Gal » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:28 am

Any opinions out there concerning my new load, 30g powder, 405g LRNFP, 1370 FPS being used as a hunting round?
That's almost identical to the very traditional Trapdoor 45-70 load, such as the Remington factory 405 grain loads we discussed. The Remington factory load has an excellent record as a hunting load within a reasonable range. As I mentioned, earlier, the Remington load in my Contender carbine is also an accurate load as well as one I can manage as far as recoil.

Also not surprised that 1600 fps load started to bite. 1600 fps is where the 45-70 gets uncomfy to shoot for me, too.
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Frontiersman » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:26 pm

The trouble with debating velocity of the .45-70 is like any other. We tend to focus on muzzle velocity, but it's the velocity on impact that determines bullet performance. And, of course, that all depends on the distance we are shooting at our target. Historically, the .45-70 has been used at 100s of yards with big slow bullets with great success. Todays short range jacked high velocity loads are a whole nether science.

Personally, I don't worry much about expansion with the .45-70. You are already making a .458 hole with a blunt bullet. It leaks plenty on both ends, whether you use up all that energy after it passes through or not.

It's when using small caliber bullets, that I feel we need to wring every last drop of energy into the animal. It's just two different schools of thought.

The .45-70 is devastating without all that speed.
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Dadio63 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:07 am

North Country Gal,
I also looked up the green box Remington loads you suggested, and they do fall right in line with the Cowboy action loads, and they are way more comfortable to shoot than those big ass hunks of lead traveling at 1600+ FPS,kind of like you said earlier.

Frontiersman,
I’m a rookie at reloading, and do not own a chronograph or Labradar (Doppler radar chrono), so felt recoil is my benchmark. I have found through painful trial and error that when the projectile (no matter what size/weight) reaches around 1600fps, I stop having fun squeezing the triggeer, kind of like what North Country Gal mentioned earlier.

I have yet to see the effects a 405 grain lead, round nose flat top projectile will have on an animal, but am tuning up my rifle, load of choice and my own shooting skills for a boar hunt scheduled for this December in Texas with my sons.

I have a feeling that if I do my job ( sight alignment, sight picture B.R.A.S.S) I will have the opportunity to see what kind of response my chosen load will have. I don’t think any hog is going to know the round was only traveling 1300fps, but my shoulder will thank me.
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Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Pitchman1968 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Hey Dadio, I haven't pulled up this forum since late June, so, but this is to share with you my .45-70 shooting experience. First, a disclaimer, although I own 3 Henry rifles, my .45-70 rifle is a 1895 Marlin CB - - 26" barrel, 10 round capacity, and unloaded 2 lbs. is lighter that your Henry. The Marlin's 26" barrel probably gives me a 75 - 100 fps. velocity increase over your rifle; beyond that, there isn't much difference between the 2 guns as far as performance goes. Stick with IMR 41 powder. I have used 5 different powders and IMR 4198 gives me consistent velocity, accuracy, and a totally manageable thump to my 75 year old right shoulder. I use an Uncle Mike's pull-on recoil pad. I use Starline brass and never have had a cracked case. I toss the brass after a dozen reloads. After loading 8 different types and bullet weights, I now shoot only 405 gr. Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets. I apply gas checks to the bullets. Here is the reloading recipe: 35 Grains IMR 4198, Win LR primers, OT 405 gr bullet seated to an COAL of 2.580" with the bullets just toucging th rifleing. Results at 100 yard benchrest shooting: Velocity - 1475 fps, 2 - 3' groups. Lastly, 3 years ago after my opthamogist told my I was forming small cateracts, I had a Leupold VX-2 scope mounted on the rifle which enables me to stay in the 10 ring out 175 yards
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