Spring has sprung. Get out and shoot your Henry

muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

All things reloading here
User avatar
tarbe
Cowhand
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:08 pm
Location: Romance, MO
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by tarbe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Yes, I am technically in Cypress...far NW Houston off 290.

I am a member at PSC in Pearland...quite a drive for me, but my membership there gives me unlimited use of all the ranges. Just have to work around matches (only a conflict on Range 1).

http://www.psc-range.com/
0 x
USMC 1976 - 1980 0351

Henry H010
Henry H010CC
Savage M99 308 (born in '57 like me!)
Browning M53 32-20
336 30-30
No 1 300 H&H
No 1 375 H&H
1895 30-40 Krag
Ruger American 308
Several Nasty Black Rifles :o

User avatar
JEBar
Town Marshal / Deputy Admin
Posts: 19269
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: central NC
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Houston covers a large area .... Cypress is about an hour's drive from our campground on Lake Conroe .... we've never been in the Pearland area, we seldom get south of I-10
0 x

Pitchman1968
Cowhand
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:34 am
Location: Central Massachusetts
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Pitchman1968 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:25 pm

Hello again, Dadio 63 You raised great points on my original response to your posting. This is to provide you with some more context and perspective on my first posting:
1. 2.580" COAL - -The crimp ring on the 405 gr Oregon Trail bullets is how I end up with 2.580". When I align my Lee Factory Crimp die with the crimp ring on the bullets' crimp ring then apply the crimp, it consistently produces a 2.580" COAL. Richard Lee's 2002 edition of "Modern Reloading" is my reloading textbook. It lists the Minimum .45-70 COAL as 2.550. I made up several dummy cartridges of 2.580 and they cycled flawlessly. It just so happens the 2.580 length barely touches the rifling in my Marlin 1895 CB rifle... I did not start out trying engage the rifling, it just happened with the 2.580 COAL.
2. I believe you are correct in proposing there may a slight difference in the Marlin's chamber compared to the Henry's chamber; for that matter there could also be slight variations in the rifles' receivers and actions.
3. Pressure build-up with the bullet touching the rifling - the Marine sniper's point on pressure build-up is certainly believable. However, I have confidence the strength of Henry's and Marlin's receivers can safely handle a moderate pressure increase. Interestingly, I have fired about 750 of these rounds with no signs of pressure build-up such as difficult extraction or flat/bulged primers.
4. Gas checks - If, as I do, you plan on predominantly shooting lead bullets through your .44-70, I encourage you to consider adding gas checks to your reloading process. Prior to applying gas checks to my cast lead bullet reloads, I was experienceing terrible accuracy, e.g., 8'' - 10" groups at 100 yards. Once I began using gas checked bullets those groups tightened down to 2"-3" groups. I believe gas checks provide these benefits: (1) consistent velocity as the bullet is forced through and out of the rifle's barrel (2) an undamaged bullet base; without a gas check the lead bullet's base is deformed when it is melted by the intense heat of the powder's ignition. That melting is almost eliminated by the use of gas checks, thus providing truer bullet flight, and (3) a significant reduction of lead fouling in the rifle's barrel.
Applying gas checks is a simple step in the reloading process. Midway stocks a Lee .45-70 bullet resizing kit for $20.00; additionally you need to buy a tube of Lee Aloe bullet lube for $6.50, and lastly you need to order of box of Hornady .45 caliber gas checks with a .459" diameter, these are packed 1,000 to box and cost $35.00.
Best Wishes for successful .45-70 Reloading; please come back to me with thoughts on any of this.

Pitchman1968
1 x

User avatar
JEBar
Town Marshal / Deputy Admin
Posts: 19269
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: central NC
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:23 pm

after a great deal of research and pondering what has been read, I've decided to deviate from my firmly ingrained practice of loading our practice ammo to the same specs/standards of our hunting ammo .... the fact of the matter is, even after some highly effective mods designed to reduce felt recoil, our Henry 45-70 isn't fun to fire when using full power hunting loads .... consequently, it stays in the safe most of the time .... early on we found we did enjoy firing HSM Cowboy Action loads .... in reading various sources, it is reported to be acceptable to fire "trapdoor" level loads in our Henry .... we have decided to use 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertips for both our hunting and practice ammo a search for a practice .... as a contrast :

our Hunting Load uses 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 which yields a muzzle velocity +/- 2,225 fps
fps
the corresponding minimum 45-70 Government load (per Nosler) is 47.5 gr of IMR 4198 yielding a muzzle velocity of +/- 2,022

our first attempt to find a trapdoor level practice load (shown below) loaded with 31.1 gr of IMR 4195 which, per Sierra, should yield a muzzle velocity of +/- 1,450 fps

per our ballistics program, the bullet trajectory of this load should be

-0.2" @ 25 yards, Zeroed @ 50 yards, -1.1" at 75 yards, and -3.3" @ 100 yards

OR

+07" @ 25 yards, +1.8" @ 50 yards, +1.6" at 75 yards, and Zeroed @ 100 yards

either of those should be fine for punching paper and ringing gongs .... my hope is this significant reduction in muzzle velocity there should be a corresponding reduction in felt recoil
Attachments
181025 001 trapdoor practice loads 001.jpg
181025 001 trapdoor practice loads 001.jpg (61.44 KiB) Viewed 2691 times
1 x

User avatar
Ojaileveraction
Cowboy
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:49 pm
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by Ojaileveraction » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:07 pm

Will your Nosler bullets perform at that velocity?

The metaplat of a 45-70 lead flat nose makes a big hole.
0 x
Pax at Justitia

User avatar
JEBar
Town Marshal / Deputy Admin
Posts: 19269
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: central NC
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Ojaileveraction wrote:Will your Nosler bullets perform at that velocity?

The metaplat of a 45-70 lead flat nose makes a big hole.

per Nosler, they perform best at 1800-3200 fps .... for hunting rounds those numbers most certainly should be considered .... for range working punching holes in paper or ringing a gong, a muzzle velocity of +/- 1,450 fp really doesn't matter .... if/when we take it deer, black bear, or boar hunting we will use the same 300 gr Noslers but will load them to 2,225 or more fps
0 x

220
Cattle Driver
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 11:11 pm
Australia

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by 220 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Shot this young one a few weeks back with my 45/70, Noe 405 wfp cast from 2:2:96 as a hollow point that weighs 370gr. 47gr AR2208 that is sold as varget in USA, 1550fps mv. At a guess I would say he was around 600lb.
Recoil is certainly more than my 340gr load at around 1300fps but still significantly less than full factory loads.
Image
1 x

User avatar
JEBar
Town Marshal / Deputy Admin
Posts: 19269
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: central NC
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:20 pm

405 grs should do a number on most critters .... congrats on your buck ...just curious, how far away was he when you hit him .. :?:
0 x

220
Cattle Driver
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 11:11 pm
Australia

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by 220 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:27 pm

Would have been around 100y JEBar, at that distance MV would be back to a bit over 1300fps and energy around 1500ft/lbs.
Didn't recover the bullet as complete penetration, given the size of the wound cavity it looks like there was some expansion. I have dug a few out of soil that have been 3/4 - 1"
0 x

User avatar
JEBar
Town Marshal / Deputy Admin
Posts: 19269
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: central NC
United States of America

Re: muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

Post by JEBar » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:45 pm

most impressive ... passing through a buck that size at 100 yards clearly demonstrates the power generated by your cast 405 .... do your have more hunts on tap .. :?:
0 x

Post Reply