Question about initial cost

[CT_Shooter]

Anyone have any opinions/experience with this Lee "Ultimate" 4-die set from Midway?

I use Lee's four die set for .357/38 caliber and highly recommend them. I also think the factory crimp die (included) is essential, though that may be different for rifle calibers.

[clovishound]

There is a lot of controversy on the reloading forums about the Lee factory crimp die. I have used one in 9mm, .357 and several bottle neck rifle calibers. IMO, the FCD is nothing special in pistol calibers. The main issue it addresses is the separation of the seat and crimp into two different operations. This can have beneficial effects IMO, as the bullet is not being forced down when the crimp is being applied. It also makes the adjustment process easier. Having said that, I see no real difference in my ammo loaded with or without the FCD. I have chosen not to use the FCD in my turret to give me room for a power check die.

The carbide post seating sizing ring sounds like a good idea, but I doubt it helps in most situations, although some folks claim it fixed problems with their ammo. Others claim they have had issues when using it with cast bullets where the resizing actually caused the bullets to loose neck tension, or resized the bullets to the point they had leading issues.

Now for bottleneck rifle calibers, the FCD is great IMO. The collet style crimp die is far superior in my experience. I had a set of RCBS dies in 30-06 that would not hold a bullet sufficient to prevent setback no matter what I tried. I purchased a Lee FCD and it worked like a charm.

The pistol caliber FCD is a different animal than the bottleneck rifle caliber FCD.

[ESquared]

Wow, guys, thanks for clearing that up! Talk about "head about to explode"!

I guess what I'm reading, bottom line, is that the Factory Crimp Die, while maybe open to question as to its benefit, has certainly not proven to be a hindrance or presented any performance or safety issues.

Is that fair to say?

The reason it's important, in my case, is that I'd be reloading both 357 and 30-30 (and 308), so just trying to sort all this out.

Thanks for helping me up the learning curve, though.

[Mistered]

I started using a FCD with 30-30 many years ago and consider it nearly essential as opposed to the roll crimp provision on the seating die.
Reason is the 30-30 cases are fairly thin and if the roll crimp is not set perfectly it is very easy to collapse a case upon crimping.
This is not typically a problem if ALL cases are trimmed to the same length but some cases will be a bit short and not ‘stretch’ as much as some others.
The FCD eliminates this problem as the seating die is set to stop the round before it makes contact with the ‘roll’ in the die and crimping becomes a separate step with the FCD. Ultimately it turns out to be faster in the ‘long run’ than roll crimping.
The same thing with crimping straight wall pistol cases. Pistol cases typically do not get trimmed and like the 30-30 slight variations in case length can cause roll crimping problems though usually not as bad as with 30-30. I was recently given a .357 FCD and the same results as with the 30-30. Faster in the long run and no issues with case length. I plan on getting one for .38 Special also (as the .357 one given to me is not ‘universal’)

[CT_Shooter]

I started reloading .357/38 a few years ago on a single stage press (that I still use) only using the seating/crimp die to seat the bullet, not to crimp it. I didn't like the idea of crimping a bullet while it is still in motion. So, for me, the FCD roll crimps with precision as a final step in the process. It also provides a final resizing of the case that guarantees that the round will chamber in a revolver. The only performance issues that I have read about is for those who want to shoot cast lead boolits that are greater than .357. In that case, there is disagreement about whether the FCD also resizes the boolit, which is not desirable. I only shoot jacketed bullets, so it's not an issue.

[BigAl52]

Ive loaded for 40 plus years like Mistered. But I dont use some of the methods he uses not because his are wrong and mine are right just because each person who decides to take up reloading is going to develop a system of his own by just plain doing it. I dont use the liquid cleaning method I use a vibratory tumbler. I have used the liquid method with ceraminc media but I just dont care for the extra steps it adds to case cleaning. I also like JEbar use a digital scale. Mine is an RCBS Chargemaster 1500. But I also have a beam scale as a backup and to check the digital scale. My powder measure is a Redding. There expensive now. But if you look around you could probably find a deal on one. I also have 3 Dillon Square deal progressive presses. I did not start with them I started with an RCBS JR and I loaded alot of ammo with it before I got a progressive. Another item I have is a Lyman case prep center. I love that machine for its time saving when trimming and cleaning primer pockets. I will also mention that you can save steps here cleaning with liquid based tumblers because the pins they use with the liquid will clean the primer pockets. I just dont care for the drying time involved if I dont have that time. All in all it just boils down to the personal preferences after actually doing it. I know I have bought reloading items and ended up not using them after while as I found a different method I prefer. Al

[ESquared]

Thanks very much, guys. All of this is so "old hat" to you, but it's a bit daunting for a newbie like me. Understand completely the personal preference concept, and can see how "whatever works best for you" comes into play.
Now I have another gadget to research: the "Lyman case prep center."
Still sleeping on this idea (for several nights running now)...

[Mistered]

When I went to liquid with stainless steel pins not only does the brass come out looking like new but only a couple hours required in the liquid as opposed to many in dry, vibratory media, no dust and after shaking the cases in a colander I dump them into a towel in a cooking pan and set outside to dry. All things considered I find my time with liquid to be less overall than with vibratory - and none of tha nasty crushed walnut shell!

PS. - when I have a chance I’ll post a pic of the biggest and most expensive case trimmer in the world!!

[wvhills]

WOW am i out of it.. i saw that $650 sale price and was in sticker shock, holy crap... so outta curiosity i went to midway and started adding to the cart, i was at $525 with a Rcbs starter kit, tumbler kit, dies, shell holders(2), dial caliper, pocket brush, & powder stand; thats with NO bullets, primers or powder.
i am still using my single stage RCBS Kit i bought about 1986, have also picked up some more extras from online forums. i just was not aware of the price of getting into reloading now.
so that sale price is not totally outta line with the prices now... especially with dies, bullets,primers and powder, at least i don't think so...after that little excursion at midway;
also you could look on some forums for some used items from reputable members. just so you know, you'll get hooked.

[Mistered]

there is disagreement about whether the FCD also resizes the boolit

I have never heard or read this before but regardless I take the path of it NOT resizing the bullet.
For one, the crimp force needed to effectively crimp a round is well BELOW what would even begin to deform a bullet and due to the design of the FCD it exerts pressure equally around the circumference of the case and even if this were possible the case would have to be deformed along with the bullet. And because of this excess lead would have to be pushed up, or downward as the bullet is 'squeezed' out of diameter. Lastly if you look at the 'jaws' of the die there is very close proximity between them and can only move together so far before they meet and will no longer move.
Bottom line is this is probably disinformation from manufacturers who do NOT produce FCDs.