First experience with Trail Boss

[clovishound]

I have trouble with cast, and even a lot of coated bullets leading the forcing cone of both my Model 10 Smith and the Pup's Ruger. I had a bunch of troublesome coated wadcutters in .38 and a whole box of cast sitting and gathering dust. I decided to give Trail Boss a try and see if it really makes a difference with lead.

I loaded up the coated wadcutters with a few light, and bunch of middle loads, there is only .3 grains different between start and max. Just for giggles and grins, I also tried a handful of .45 ACP and the cast in .38.

The wadcutters were incredibly light in recoil. I checked the barrel a couple times to make sure it hadn't had a squib. Accuracy was excellent. The .45s were also noticeably light in recoil, again with good accuracy.

I eventually ran about 50 of the coated through the Model 10 with absolutely no leading. The Ruger was very susceptible to leading, and it came through clean of lead, as did the cast through the Model 10.

This opens a whole bunch of options for loading for me.

[DAVIDF]

I eventually want to try Alliant Sport Pistol. Medium fast burning, which will be fine for what I do. It is supposed to be slightly cooler burning, designed specifically for lead and coated lead, with a flash suppressant, and won't dissolve or destroy the coating while being stored.

[clovishound]

Sounds interesting. I wondered why a coated bullet would cause leading. I never thought about the coating being dissolved. I always thought the most likely scenario would be the coating being damaged during the loading process. I've heard that Trail Boss has no nitro.

Sport Pistol doesn't sound like it is nearly as fluffy as Trail Boss. They market it in 1lb bottles, that look like they are similar, or the same as their other bottles. Word on the street is it has about the same density as HP38.

Then again, Sport Pistol has data for high pressure calibers, like 9mm. I notice that it uses very little in a 148 grain wadcutter load for .38. Just a little more than Trail Boss. Alliant says it is medium burn speed. Trail Boss ranks between HP38 and TItegroup, so I would rate it somewhat fast.

[Mistered]

I have trouble with cast, and even a lot of coated bullets leading the forcing cone of both my Model 10 Smith and the Pup's Ruger.

I don't know your experience in reloading but there are really only two elements for leading and they are velocity and bullet hardness (being too soft that is of course)
Powder doesn't really have much to do with it UNLESS it is a load of relatively slow powder creating high velocity with a fairly soft (uncoated) lead bullet.
Trail boss is a very dense powder and fills the case well with light loads - but it of itself is not a powder that is necessarily going to eliminate leading. It's load characteristics will no doubt for the most part NOT cause leading but there are MANY other powders that traditionally load similarly with no leading problems - Bullseye probably being the 'standard' for light pistol rounds, even with softer bullets.
I never really understood Trail Boss - in that it is sold in minimum amounts of 8 OZ bottles when everything else is 1 Lb.
You might want to try Hodgdon 700X next time around. It is nearly the same density as Trail Boss, comes in 1 Lb cans and produces very accurate loads with similar load weights - at least it has for me but due to it's poor metering in my powder measures I stopped using it.
I would recommend you find a brand of bullet that is harder also. I typically load hard cast to 1300-1400 FPS with no leading at all - but I am sure to use a hard cast bullet as opposed to one that might be suggested as a 'low velocity only' bullet.
Good luck!

[DAVIDF]

I have trouble with cast, and even a lot of coated bullets leading the forcing cone of both my Model 10 Smith and the Pup's Ruger.

I don't know your experience in reloading but there are really only two elements for leading and they are velocity and bullet hardness (being too soft that is of course)
Powder doesn't really have much to do with it UNLESS it is a load of relatively slow powder creating high velocity with a fairly soft (uncoated) lead bullet.
Trail boss is a very dense powder and fills the case well with light loads - but it of itself is not a powder that is necessarily going to eliminate leading. It's load characteristics will no doubt for the most part NOT cause leading but there are MANY other powders that traditionally load similarly with no leading problems - Bullseye probably being the 'standard' for light pistol rounds, even with softer bullets.
I never really understood Trail Boss - in that it is sold in minimum amounts of 8 OZ bottles when everything else is 1 Lb.
You might want to try Hodgdon 700X next time around. It is nearly the same density as Trail Boss, comes in 1 Lb cans and produces very accurate loads with similar load weights - at least it has for me but due to it's poor metering in my powder measures I stopped using it.
I would recommend you find a brand of bullet that is harder also. I typically load hard cast to 1300-1400 FPS with no leading at all - but I am sure to use a hard cast bullet as opposed to one that might be suggested as a 'low velocity only' bullet.
Good luck!

There are plenty of other factors that can effect how much leading will occur. If loaded improperly and case mouth isn't opened enough or improper crimping and lead is scraped off, then leading can occur no mater what the velocity is. A rougher barrel will cause more leading. A cast bullet that is not properly sized for the barrel can lead to a poor seal and excessive leading. The hardness nor the velocity matters in some of those situations except to perhaps make it even worse. Simply going with a harder alloy or using a slower load doesn't always eliminate the leading. I can get leading with a slow velocity load using a hard cast bullet with a BHN of 20+ in one of my Super Blackhawks. I have gotten horrible leading using a cast bullet with a BHN of 24, probably because it was not properly sized.

Another factor some have experienced is that the lube used and or how many lube grooves can effect the amount of leading. Cap and Ball on youtube talks about proper lube on bullets with his black powder firearms and how it can effect leading.

[clovishound]

I am finding that leading issues are gun specific. I had an older model 10 that I could shoot almost any cast bullet combo without leading. With my current model 10, there are things I could do that either increased or diminished it, but the only thing I have tried that worked was the Trailboss loads. I ran some of the same box of wadcutters loaded with Universal and they accumulated lead in the forcing cone and even had what looked like lead vapor deposition on the frame near the forcing cone. Same bullet, same gun, same flaring, same crimp, different powder.

I suspect the leading has something to do with the surface of the forcing cone (it is a little rough), or perhaps the diameter of the throats in the cylinder. It's been easier for me to just run plated than to find a gunsmith that could straighten this out for me. I haven't been able to find a local gunsmith that was confident in messing with the forcing cone.

As to the difference in density, I checked the VMD chart and found that 700x is twice as dense as Trailboss. I'm sure this is why Hogdgon sells nine ounces of Trailboss in what is normally a 1 lb bottle. 9 ounces of TB fills that bottle. They normally charge less for TB than other powders, but if you figure the cost per round for .38 wadcutters between Universal and TB, TB is the cheaper of the two. With other bullet/caliber combos, I'm sure things will be different. Powder is normally the cheapest component when loading handgun calibers anyway.

For me, the biggest down side to TB is the recoil is almost too light in a full sized revolver. I sort of prefer a little more punch when shooting. If I shoot these in my daughter's 3" SP101, they are about right for my personal recoil level. With cast wadcutters, I can load a box of 50 for $5. That makes shooting the .38 very affordable for me. As the Pup and I will normally run through a couple hundred centerfire every week, I have to keep an eye on reloading costs. Using cast in .45, I can load a box of 50 for $6.30. We both really love shooting the 1911.

[DAVIDF]

Well, I looked on Powder Valley's website and noticed several powders that I am interested in or currently using out of stock. I figured I better order some before I am waiting for months and months for them to get back in stock. They had a decent price on TB, 5lbs for $113.50. But I decided to order Sport Pistol, 8lbs for $129.95. Max charges seem to be the same as Red Dot that I have been using for .44. It should work excellent for my intentions.

[clovishound]

Well, I'm going to have to back pedal a little. I just finished cleaning the model 10 after shooting a bunch of the cast wadcutters yesterday. There was some leading hiding in the barrel. It wasn't bad. I was able to clean it all out with just a few minutes work. I'm still impressed with how well this powder does with cast compared to other powders I have tried.