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357 vs 30-30

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JEBar
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357 vs 30-30

Post by JEBar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:37 pm

a recent conversation with a friend about using a 357 Mag rifle for deer hunting motivated me to do some research ....within its range (for sake of discussion 100 +/- yards), I don't know anyone who would dispute the ability of a 30-30 to take down deer and/or black bear .... in looking through various manuals, muzzle velocities of +/- 2,000 fps with a 150 grain bullet are pretty common .... none of my manuals provide such data for a 357 rifle ... according to Nosler, their 158 grain bullet 357 loads, fired from an 8.3" barrel show muzzle velocities of +/- 1,500 fps .... specific example : with 14.8 grains of W296 they show 1,540 fps .... the reason I mention that load is, that is the load we have been using for decades for our son's Ruger GP100's .... the additional 11.7" of the 20" barrel on a Henry H012M could be expected to increase the muzzle velocity to where it is comparable to that of a 30-30 .... to me this reinforces the fact that, within its range (here again for sake of discussion 100 or less yards), a Henry 357 has to be considered capable of taking deer .... comments ?
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by tx gunrunner » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:49 pm

Put 2 one gal jugs at 100 yds and shoot 1 with your 357 and then the other one with a 30-30 . You will see the different . Then post your opinion .
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by JEBar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:56 pm

will give that a try .... I have no experience shooting gallon jugs with them but having helped clean several deer taken by our sons with their GP100's at 50 +/- yards, I have no doubt that out of a rifle the 357 can do the job .... the reality is, it doesn't take a cannon to bring down a southern whitetail
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by CT_Shooter » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:03 pm

JEBar,
I think you'll find this article helpful, too.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/0 ... 57-magnum/
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JEBar
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by JEBar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:37 pm

nice article .... thanks for posting the link .... the data given pretty much reinforces what I've been thinking .... at 100 yards or less, the 357 stacks up pretty well .... quotes taken from the link ....

"the .30-30 still dramatically outperforms these exotic .357s at longer ranges." ....

"Hornady makes a .357 Magnum 140-grain Leverevolution that claims to get 1850 fps and 1064 lb-ft from an 18″ carbine. Buffalo Bore also claims that their “Heavy” .357 Magnum hard cast 158-grain loads will produce 2153 fps and 1626 lb-ft from an 18″ carbine. This would place it in the middle of the pack for .30-30 ballistics, at least within 100 yards, at a cost about equal to premium .30-30 ammo." ....

the last 2 paragraphs of the article's conclusion seem to be well thought out :

"If you plan to use your gun on bigger game or at ranges past 100 or 150 yards, the .30-30 is your clear choice. While the 16″ Trapper is very handy, consider an 18″ barrel which will give you an extra round of magazine capacity and a small ballistic increase.

If your gun is likely to be used primarily for recreational shooting, hunting medium game within 100 yards, or defensive use, the .357 is superior. Its higher capacity and lower recoil are more suited to such applications where the extra power and penetration of the .30-30 would be wasted."

historically, for our deer hunting the average shooting distances are much less that 100 yards with a good portion falling within the 25 - 50 yard range .... under those conditions, a properly placed shot should do well
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by PT7 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:17 pm

Whenever this "discussion" comes up, I'm reminded of Henry's web info for the .30-30 at https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/the-henry-3030/

"...the .30-30 rifle remains the perennial choice of whitetail hunters. More than just another deer cartridge, the venerable .30-30 has been the king of deer calibers since the first rifle chambered in this ageless round was produced in 1894. In fact, it’s a safe bet that in the past century, no other round has put more antlers on the wall and venison in the freezer than the .30-30."

I'd say that Henry's research and "safe bet" is possibly valid...there are a lot of .30-30 rifles used for the deer hunt!

But I wouldn't hesitate to take a Henry .357 Magnum Big Boy for deer hunting (which I did). And to me, CT's article on the .357 Magnum provides good support for that caliber to be used to harvest deer. I've shot a .30-30, but prefer the .357. I think it's a great ammo, and in a Henry Big Boy, it will to the job fine! Just my two cents.
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by DWD445 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:16 pm

Never tried W296, but as I said in yesterday's range report H110 was a cannon ball in my 8" DW, wish I had a Henry to try it in, maybe my shoulder wouldn't be sore today. I was just over min load and they were WAY stronger than any factory ammo I shot. At max 16.? 10" was over 1500fps.... So IMHO 357mag + Henry = venison in freezer!! ;)
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by JEBar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:54 pm

just to be clear, I'm not saying that I believe a 357 is better than a 30-30 .... I have my grandfather's early edition Model 94 Winchester 30-30 .... he took more bear and deer with it than I'm ever subject to see in the wild .... I've contributed to that total and one of our sons is determined to be the 3rd generation to take a deer with it .... in the opening post I selected it to cite as a standard to measure by and did so because I hold a 30-30 in high esteem .... just as there is nothing a 308 can do that 30-06 can't do a bit better .... nothing a Winchester 300 Mag can do that a 300 WBY Mag can't do a bit better .... with the exception of less recoil, there is nothing a 357 can do that a 30-30 can't do better .... the longer the range the bigger the gap becomes .... if doing so under there limitations, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt for deer, small bear, or boar hunt with either of them .... the fellow in this short video was beyond fortunate but he did demonstrate the impact of a 357 ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwT42pFCsNU <=== :o
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by White Squirrel » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:53 pm

In Indiana, only shotgun slugs or straight-walled handgun calibers are legal, so no doubt that here a .357 is more popular than a 30-30! :o
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Re: 357 vs 30-30

Post by ditto1958 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:58 pm

The Lee loading manual has quite a few rifle loads for .357. With H110 powder and a 158 grain Hornady XTP bullet, the starting load is rated at 1619 fps. A max load is a little over 1700 fps.

That should be plenty for hunting at reasonable distances.
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